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  • #177233
    Brian blue
    Participant

    Nine…it is often cited that City did not replace Kompany and that was there only downfall last season. I never agreed with that, however, I thought Liverpool would have learned from that but I also think they started to loose focus when the league was won towards the end of the season, this carried over and replacements not found when VD and Gomez went down the situation became much worse. Liverpool are a strong club and I am sure they will come through this spell but maybe not with the same players. Just another fans view

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    #177235
    Mikus
    Participant

    I’m afraid Klopp’s not had his best season. I think because the front 3 have largely stayed fit, he sacrificed the rest of the team to keep them in it because he felt they were still our main strength. But they’ve been out of form and then we lost Jota for a good part. The other injuries have exacerbated the situation. But we’ve only had one way of playing this season & Klopp just seemed to keep repeating it even if it meant losing 5 games on the trot at home. Not enough variety in the team. I think we rested on our laurels after last season. Be interesting to see what happens in the summer.

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    #177237
    nine nine nine
    Moderator

    Top of the PL at Christmas Mikus after stuffing Palace for 7 and the January transfer window days away to solve the Centre Back issues Liverpool were favourites to retain the title at that stage.

    And why oh why did Klopp play Jota in a dead rubber in the CL which resulted in his injury?

    Klopp has definitely made some unforced errors this season which has suprised me tbh.

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    #177239
    Mikus
    Participant

    The team just isn’t as robust as Man City. You need several ingredients for it all to work. Man City can lose a few parts and still score goals for fun. They still finished last season with 81 points. Which ain’t a bad return for a supposedly ‘off season’. Keita was supposed to give us something different, but unfortunately hasn’t. And I don’t think Thiago was what we really needed.

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    #177243
    Mikus
    Participant

    What we do actually need is an out and out striker. This business of expecting our front 3 (who are more wingers) to keep scoring 20/30 goals a season is arguably unsustainable.

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    #177248
    Nike19Nike19
    Participant

    Seems to me as wires crossed and thoughts on Liverpool that are supposed to be separated from the rest of the clubs lost in translation or people clearly don’t understand or may understand, but choosing to dismiss; in peace, I really do not know.

    Manchester United first time in winning the Title 1993 after 25 years no pandemic
    Chelsea first time in winning the Title after 50 years no pandemic
    Manchester City first time in winning the Title after ? years no pandemic.

    The whole point is that for Liverpool, we STILL have not had a fan celebration that entails a whole city of Liverpool congregating with Joy and Happiness. We have not had that Goodness, that experience.

    What we have had from OUR POINT OF VIEW is a Black Hole and a Parallel Universe.

    I wouldn’t expect opposition to understand. We’ve collapsed. We will likely diminish further to the point of closure of 2020-2021.

    We can then start to Access and Evaluate Liverpool Top To Bottom and put forward ideas and philosophy to change and better POSITIVELY, going into the Future.

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    #177249
    Nike19Nike19
    Participant

    Mikus, I don’t think we should compare ourselves to Manchester City. We should take ourselves out and just focus our own position at this point of time. We don’t have their money or squad depth. We’d be killing ourselves in Soul if we’re constantly placing ourselves against them.

    We’ve won plenty of Trophies and I’m led to believe as we are, We’re classed as English Most Successful Football Club.

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    #177251
    Mikus
    Participant

    No doubt Nil. I think a problem is that we arguably exceeded expectations over the last few years. We had forward wingers banging in 20/30 goals a season along with a relatively small but cohesive squad. It just wasn’t sustainable. Had other players delivered more and had we not lost some key players, we’d undoubtedly now safely be in the top 4 at least. But as you allude to, when you’re up against City, nearly everything has to be perfect. But the last few years were still remarkable. But I think we do need some variety in our side over the summer to make us less dependent on a few players and so more robust.

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    • This reply was modified 2 months ago by Mikus.
    • This reply was modified 2 months ago by Mikus.
    #177254
    PaganPagan
    Participant

    Nil, Stop trying to look for something outside of Anfield to blame, it’s all down to attitude, mentality, pressure and burnout. If riding round in an open top double decker had any effect on the way a team performs then all clubs would be getting the tin openers out on their busses….Pagan

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    #177255
    Nike19Nike19
    Participant

    Pagan, that’s twisted and a poor comment. Incomprehensible.

    You don’t have to comment, of course, you can comment, but I don’t have to agree with you and can ignore your comments.

    Looks like frustrations of Lockdown are blowing over to the wrong quarters that haven’t even disturbed you.

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    • This reply was modified 2 months ago by Nike19Nike19.
    #177257
    Nike19Nike19
    Participant

    Mikus, Completely Agree. I thought there were exceeded expectations on both Trent and Robertson from an attacking POV. Personally, I would just want them as full-backs, and not being expected to always supplement attacking play.

    What are the 3 midfielders doing?

    This to me is a 4-3-3 Template with attacking emphasis in majority. It’s executed well when complimented with the right personnel. when that’s exploited and there are no contingencies in place for quick reinforcements, then let’s just say we have to endure heavy weather.

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    #177258
    sean the sailor
    Participant

    Nine and the guys mane fair comments. Much bigger problems then vvd etc out. Klopp had made some crazy decisions but let’s not get silly

    He’s enough credit in him for this season to be a write off but we have to bounce back next season. Let’s not write off what klopp has done. It’s crazy we did what we did as city should be running away with it as their squad is formidable

    Much easier said then done then to get going again next season . Utd looking stronger. Chelsea have the 2nd best swuad in the league and city are out there on there on their own

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    #177261
    PaganPagan
    Participant

    Nil, the pandemic has affected the whole world, the clues in the word. It’s not specific to just Liverpool, so there must be other factors for the performance of the team this season.
    The mentality, attitude and desire to go again comes from the management of the team, Klopp is a brilliant manager at building a team up over a few seasons and turning them into champions, that’s what his record shows, what his record also shows is he can’t maintain that success. Now you have to ask why that is and usually things like that come down to how the players are motivated and what effect it has on them. Klopp creates the desire to win, and the pressure builds until that goal is achieved, the price of that seems to be a lack of motivation once the target is achieved, whether that’s burn out or just a general relaxation to admire a job well done is open to conjecture. Now look at Pep, he’s unproven in taking teams from being under achieving to champions, but what he is good at is maintaining success, so he must have a different way of motivating his players, a way of continuous improvement where players mentality is always about not resting on their laurels.

    To keep banging on about not being able to celebrate with the fans is the cause of this seasons results seems to be trying to shift the blame from the team to an outside influence, had Liverpool been the only place affected then you may have had a point, but all clubs have had to deal with it, it’s just a coincidence it’s come at the same time as Klopp teams seem to have a drop off in performance……Pagan

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    #177262
    BlazeBlaze
    Participant

    Pagan think your views on Klopp applies to all managers, coaches, players, the more successful managers of the past did not have the competition other clubs have aquired through finances today from where ever it comes from is irrelevant. Some managers are obviously more successful than others but they all go through a bad patch at some point. Anyway what I’m trying to say is it’s much more difficult to maintain that success nowadays than it was in the past.

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    • This reply was modified 2 months ago by BlazeBlaze.
    #177264
    nine nine nine
    Moderator

    Nil, one of Liverpool’s problems is that TTA is not a full back he is brilliant with the ball at his feet and offensively but he is defensively flawed which we saw again last Tuesday whilst at the weekend against a poor Arsenal he served up an absolutely delicious ball for Jota to score.

    The pandemic did effect Liverpool’s ability to celebrate the title with their fans with the trophy presented in an empty Stadium and no open bus tour of the City which was a shame for both the fans and the players but the pandemic had nothing to do with Liverpool’s collapse this season as has been pointed out already by a number of posters on here including Liverpool posters and you’re fooling yourself by suggesting it has. Liverpool’s problems this season go much much deeper than that.

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    #177265
    Brian blue
    Participant

    Nine…I think that just about sums it up. Nil’s word. ONLY” as applied to Liverpool in his original comment was overstated. I can understand how he feels but the problem does is deeper. Like any problem solutions can be found or not Time will tell. Liverpools future, just like any other club is in there own hands and history is for the books not the next match

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    #177266
    PaganPagan
    Participant

    Blaze, modern day managers are only focussed on short term success, they’re expected to deliver from the get go. I would suggest that Klopp is an exception to this.

    In an ideal world you’d employ Klopp to get you there and then bring in Pep to keep you there…… Pagan

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    #177267
    Nike19Nike19
    Participant

    Conventional way of life gents as I grew up with. Unfortunately in difficult circumstances has faded away. Still, maybe just focus on the present and see where how the results pan out.

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    #177269
    sean the sailor
    Participant

    But isn’t money a huge issue in all this lads?

    Pep can spend what he wants. Klopp can’t. Klopp had to sell his best players to their direct rivals in Germany.

    Liverpool have spent about 150m net or less since he came. Pep has spent nearjy 500m net. This time last season, people said pep was finished. Is klopps track record really that bad in leaving clubs pagan? Mainz totally over achieve. Dortmund fell behind after selling their star players.

    Liverpool’s troubles are no way just injuries. As you say pagan, the lack of desire in games is a real worry mate. The energy is gone. Injuries have played a part, a massive part but you don’t continue to play so high and leave Taa exploited when we are getting thorn apart

    Taa is a midfielder by trade yet he was still one of the best full backs in the works the previous two seasons. Part of a defence that kept loads of clean sheets. He’s needs help and vvd was his help. He had improved bigtime defensively in last few seasons but has gone backwards. City can bring in Walker and cancelo to play right full.we can bring in milner or neco willians. Very easy to say drop him when we don’t have proper cover.110m cities right backs cost and have absolute top class cover for 90% of the team. Liverpool don’t.
    Pep is the best manager. He’s brought so many new ideas to the game. I never write city off. Fabulous team and I knew they would bounce back. Cities still got 81 points last season. I’m hoping we can bounce back but it’s going to be very tough but no way are Liverpool fans writing Klopp off. If he never does anything again with us, he will go down as an absolute Liverpool legend. I’m content after winning the league for the 1st time in 30 years. Still enjoying it to be honest 😂

    After one bad season everyone is being written off. Let’s see how we bounce back from this.

    I disagree with what nil is saying. He’s clearly frustrated but it’s his opinion . He’s allowed have it. No point in getting annoyed nil mate. That’s football

    Klopp feeds off the fans. We have missed them as much as anyone club. The atmosphere for any game at anfield is one of the best if not the best since Klopp came.

    Lack of fans,numerous injuries, burnout, bad tactics, many players out of form, lack of money , poor decisions from the manager etc have all played a part in tvis season, no leaders when Henderson, vvd, Milner not on the pitch.

    My biggest concern is the lack of fight in games. No energy and it looked on Tuesday some players didn’t care. If anyone has downed tools then get them out. Klopp comes first over absolutely every player at the club.

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    #177271
    LuckydestinyLuckydestiny
    Participant

    Pagan I don’t think I agree re your assessments of klopp vs pep, if you follow your argument it suggests should pep have taken over pool last year he could have, through some unspecified powers of motivation, maintained their standards better than the man who actually took them to the top of the mountain?

    Based on what? That pep continues to win titles with consistently the best squad in every league he has competed in? I don’t see any logic here its just your narrative

    How many 50m centre backs and full backs has pep gone through already? You think his magic powers of motivation may be no more sophisticated than simply replacing those that don’t deliver with a top class reserve or new signing which would constantly motivate everyone else also as it serves as reminders of what is required each week to stay in peps good books?

    Honestly if klopp had peps resources pools squad would be much deeper than it is and he could have afforded to drop those that underperform until they either recover mentally and physically, get their act together or are replaced.

    Klopp had a great starting 11 and no more, sure it may be impossible for his standards to maintained for multiple seasons with such a small group but that can’t be used as a stick to beat him with, its perfectly understandable that this would be the case and the only conclusion I draw is how remarkable it is that he has achieved what he has with the resources he had relative to the resource of the competition.

    Not to underestimate how good a coach pep is, but wait until klopp manages a club with the resources pep has had before you conclude klopp couldn’t do what pep has done.

    From my POV its more logical to believe klopp could do what pep did given the same resources and that pep may not be able to achieve what klopp did given his resources

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