[CM]

I believe using injuries as an excuse can be justified if the quality of players to cover are not good enough. We are playing a CM as LB, Lindelof isn’t good enough and Dalot is average. If we have our 1st choice back 4, then things maybe different. We certainly missing Shaw. Martinez looked off for a while and his foot injury confirmed why. The players who cover may win you a few games here and there, but in the long run, they would be not good enough and would eventually get exposed.

I remember United badly missed Rio, Vidic, Evra. They had to use Heinze as cover as a CB and O Shea came in to play alongside him. They lost a few games during that period.

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[CM]

How many years did United fans put up with Spurs fans complaining about refereeing mistakes that benefited United against Spurs.

I remember Chucky harping on about the Roy Carroll incident for a good decade after it happened.

Klopp hasn’t helped himself with the comments he has made, but at the same time he is someone who is competing for major honours and it is incidents like this that could cost him the league title if it goes down to the wire.

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Chucky-

Those sort of positions were fairly unknown in English football and most top sides implemented them within the last decade.

Ferguson called shots, but he also had David Gill. He also had people in place who did background checks on players before he bought them.

Woodward threw all of that out of the window. He promised Moyes Fabregas, he ended up delivering him Fellaini. That was literally the beginning of the end and proved how out of depth he was.

The game has evolved now where sporting directors and directors of football have got important roles at the clubs. Look at how good Michael Edwards was at Liverpool. Not just at recruiting players, but selling too. Liverpool net spend was ridiculously low because of him. Klopp isn’t in charge of negotiating fees, that was all down to Edwards.

I always said City success isn’t just down to Pep, begiristain and soriano are key to their success. Look at how Barca have declined since losing both. Their scattergun approach hasn’t worked.

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Sean-

Funny enough I read up on Gillette and Hicks a few months ago. They arrived in 2007 and Liverpool didn’t win a single trophy during that period. Absolutely terrible owners.

The Glazers are hanging on to Ferguson coattail still. They have realised you don’t need to be successful at United to make money. But how long can that go on for? They haven’t put in a single penny of their own money in to club. If Glazers didn’t have Ferguson, United would have suffered the same fate as Liverpool did under Gillette and Hicks. Ferguson masked over their poor ownership.

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[CM]

Have to disagree Chucky.

That PL era Ferguson was up against the best Chelsea side in their history, the best Arsenal side in their history, a Liverpool side who has Mascherano, Alonso, Gerrard, Torres and many others, constantly causing problems in europe. Your Spurs side wasn’t too bad as well Berbatov, Keane, Modric, Woodgate, King.
The title races were either neck and neck and at times 3 teams had the chance to win the league.

You don’t get that now….City and Liverpool are the only 2 sides who are competing.

Your spurs side remind me a bit like Villa, Everton or Leeds from that era. They will be top 4 contenders and a side who do well against the top sides, but will never compete against major trophies.

You look at the quality of sides in Europe now compared to the Ferguson era. Will we ever see a side like the Milan 03-07 side, Peps Barcelona side, the great real Madrid side, Juventus were decent, so were Bayern. Barca are a shadow of themselves, Real Madrid have some good young players, but no where near the quality of 10 years ago, Milan, PSG, Bayern are all not what they once were.

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[CM]

Ten Hag currently (After 7 PL rounds):
– 9 points
– Goal difference: -4 (7/11)
– League position: 10
– Points behind top four: 7

Ole after 7 rounds:
– 14 points
– Goal difference: +8 (14/6)
– League position: 4

Ole at the time he got sacked (Round 12):
– 17 points
– Goal difference: -1 (20/21)
– League position: 8
– Points behind top four: 6

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Sean and Mikus-

You sort of saw what direction the clubs were heading under the ownerships and structure. The type of players that was being brought in i.e. Suarez and Coutinho. Klopp is a elite manager and he took you guys to another level. But would he have succeeded at United. I don’t think he would. Liverpool took a risk with Klopp on the back of a poor season at Dortmund, but they stood by him and had the right people to work with him to succeed.

There so many factors at United, the expectations would have been different. It took Klopp 4 years to win a trophy, he would have been sacked at United by then under the current ownership. Players would have given up on him etc.

Ten Hag did well at Ajax because he had Van Der Sar and Overmars alongside him. Look at that club now without them. They were successful prior to Ten Hag.

United do not have a vision, whilst Liverpool and City do. The club gave Ole a contract on back of a good interim spell. During that interim spell, that was the time to get things right, yet went with what they currently had. No top club would have done that. Then the club brought back Ronaldo, he should never have been brought back.

There is only so much a manager can do under a structure which clearly isn’t working and will never work.

The Glazers are insecure, rather than bring in real footballing people in, they brought in their own men, who are not good enough to run a football club. As long as the money keeps coming in, they don’t care.

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[CM]

I have to disagree Mikus. You look at who City and Liverpool had before Pep and Klopp.

Pelegrini won the league title with City and Rodgers was close to winning the title with Liverpool. Pelegrini went to West Ham and ended up with the sack after they were in a relegation battle. If you have the right structure in place to succeed, any half decent manager can do well. Liverpool and City have had decent people at top to help the manager. United haven’t.

Unfortunately United off the field have been neglected. If Klopp was in charge of United, he would have walked. Jose told the board Pogba was a bad influence, they stuck with Pogba and got rid of Jose. At Liverpool they would have stuck with Klopp and got rid of Pogba. Pogba is a commercial success and that is what matters to the Glazers.

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Mikus-

Pep and Klopp have been a success due to the people who are in charge of transfers. If they were not around, then I doubt they would be as successful. In today’s football, you need the right director of football or sporting director in place.

United on the other hand stuck with Woodward for too long. He over spent, gave contracts to players when we needed to let them go because he thought he would get a fee for them, gave big money to players who didn’t deserve it and other mistakes he made. He brought in 2 numbers 10s at the start when we had Rooney, he then brought in Di Maria, who didn’t want to be there, a past his prime Falcao, a past his prime Schweinsteiger, and many others. He was as incompetent as they came. Overlooked managers targets and got his own for commercial reasons. Yet the Glazers stuck with him because he helped them finance the takeover. Klopp and Pep rarely buy established players, whilst that is all Woodward wanted. They both would have been a mismatch at United. It is not only down to managers, it down to how little the owners know about running a English football club.

Now we have 2 other Glazer stooges in charge with Arnold and Murtough. The same mistakes are being made.

Throwing money at players doesn’t achieve anything, if there is nothing there to build on. I don’t know what this club wants and where it wants to go. It is certainly not back to the top.

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[CM]

I don’t think any manager could come in and sort this mess out. The club has no direction at all. Not sure what Ten Hag is trying to do. He buys a keeper who plays from the back, yet our build up play is terrible and indecisive.

Something looks off too. The players have given up and it all resembles what happened with Van Gaal, Jose and Ole. This is down to the owners, accepting this culture and allowing players to get their way for too long.

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[CM]

That audio was shocking. Wonder how much extra UAE paid him(right out of Adlabs playbook)

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Sean-

Imo, there is a quality player in there. Under Klopp, Pep and Ferguson, he would have been consistent….but due to the mismanagement of the club, being played out of position, not being played at times under Jose, poor attitude, his development has just been hindered.

But that does not excuse his lack of effort and work rate this season. He showed what he is capable of last season.

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[CM]

Rashford league goals the last 5 years-

2018-2019- 10
2019-2020- 17
2020-2021- 11
2021-2022- 4
2022-2023- 17

Son league goals-
2018-2019- 12
2019-2020- 11
2020-2021- 17
2021-2022- 23
2022-2023- 10

Mahrez-
2018-2019- 7
2019-2020- 11
2020-2021- 9
2021-2022- 11
2022-2023- 5

Grealish-
2018-2019- 6
2019-2020- 8
2020-2021- 6
2021-2022- 3
2022-2023- 5

Considering Rashford is 6 years younger than Son and Mahrez, and 3 years younger than Grealish, he truly only had 1 bad season compared to other wingers who consistently played within the last 5 years.

He also averages 20+ goals in all competition. Not bad for a player who is considered over hyped. If he was throwing those numbers at Spurs, I am sure he would be talked about on the same scale as Bale and Son.

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Chucky-

Rashford goal average is no different to Son or Mane the last 4 years, where he gets 10+ in the PL and 20+ in all competitions and played in similar positions.

Rashford plays as a wide forward. Salah is the only wide forward who gets a considerably a lot of goals. If you have a look at the top scorers within the last 4 years, the top 5 are mostly strikers i.e. Kane, Toney, Wilson, Haaland last season.

Son is playing up top this season as a striker, which has helped his goal tally this season.

Rashford work rate seems off this season, that is not down to what you think of him as a player, but more down to attitude and effort. That what is original post was about if you compare his work rate and attitude to last season. He is running and chasing back a lot less.

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[CM]

He has always been a quality player. Problem is he came through really young and the mismanagement caused his development to hinder.

Last season wasn’t a fluke. He was playing with alot of hunger and drive. This season his attitude is the complete opposite.

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Mikus-

This isn’t the 1st time VAR has blatantly failed on a similar level to Saturdays game. Look at the goal City scored against Fulham earlier this season, where a player who was offside by a few yards interfered with play and the goal was given. Liverpool have benefited from decisions too, for the example the Spurs game last season.

VAR has been a shambles. I believe the point is, why are officials getting so many decisions wrong.

There should have been the same level of uproar for the above. But there wasn’t because City ended up winning the game convincingly.

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[CM]

Genuinely what is the point in this “Ref Watch” segment, they wheel in Dermot Gallagher to blindly back the referee and try to justify these horrific decisions that we see week in week out. pic.twitter.com/IvwWi270Zm

— Jack Fawcett (@JFAnalysis) October 2, 2023

In a few weeks time, when a team gets a penalty for a similar incident…he will be justifying it by saying how the player changed the direction of the ball with his hand when it was heading towards the opposition player.

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[CM]

When you observe VAR during international tournaments like the Euros and World Cup, many applaud it. Saying how brilliant it is.

Which makes you question, why do our refs get so much wrong when we have it in place. Mike Dean not so long ago said he didn’t want to show up his mate, so he ignored utilising VAR for a decision. If that isn’t admitting conflict of interest and corruption, then what is. How quickly did those comments get brushed under the carpet too.

We do not go a weekend without scratching our heads thinking something isn’t right here.

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[CM]

Rest well old friend

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[CM]

The 2 refs officiating the Liverpool game were both officiating a game in the UAE just a few days prior.

Adlab, Where are the City owners from?

VAR has exposed how corrupt the game is. I cannot believe even with technology, the refs can get so much wrong.

There needs to be a clamp down on pundits and so called journalists influencing the refs. The outcry with the Onana decision in comparison to a stone wall penalty Brentford should have got against Spurs that same weekend was alarming. If you are going to discuss 1, discuss the other too. We all know United sell and make clicks, but the level of coverage was just ridiculous.

Dermot Gallagher also showed his double standards last week when he said the Arsenal penalty against Spurs was correct, yet the 1 United should have received against Spurs just a few weeks prior was the right call too, mentioning the player was too close to the player, so it wasn’t a penalty.

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