Reality check

[whoisbeni]

I wouldn’t celebrate a united demise too soon, finishing second and with a quality squad they will still be there or thereabouts.

I just hope they persevere with Jose as long as possible into his implosion as he is so destructive. Speaking as a Liverpool fan of course

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[nine nine nine]

Agree with Benni United won’t be far away but City are the team to finish above for anyone with title ambitions.

Seemingly Klopp had a bit of a reality check a while back in changing his strategy from not buying big to buying big in order to have a real go at finishing above City.

I’m glad he did it should make the title race a bit more interesting than last Season.

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[sean the sailor]

Would not write off Jose or utd one bit

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[Mick Far]

Four months after raising the reality check on Mourinho and what the spine of the Utd team will be by the end of the season….
Those who didn’t see issues brewing and refused to recognize major problems from manager, boardroom or players….how are you seeing things now?
Who will your nailed on spine of a team be finishing 2018-19 and starting the next season be?

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[maverick1973]

Everybody can see there are major problems @ the club.

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[cm]

Martial and Rashford are still at the club, De Gea is close to agreeing a new contract. Neymar did not arrive and so on. Jose only just signed a new contract last January, he is bound to be annoyed that the club did not back him. If you’re going to blame someone, blame the current CEO who gave the manager a new contract only 8 months ago, vetoed his transfer targets and thinks he can build a successful PL title winning better than someone who has won the PL 3 times.

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[Hightown hope]

cm – genuine question…do you not think Morinho is at all at fault?

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[cm]

Hightown hope-

Not this time round. Like I said earlier, he was only given a contract extension last January. So why not let him continue building the team he wants. Yes he can be a prize plum, but he genuinely and rightfully should be frustrated with Woodward. Get rid of Jose and then who?

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[Mick Far]

CM- So your opinion is that the board should continue to bankroll the team that Mourinho is “continuing to build?!!”

So his expensive signings/wages over the last two years are evidence of his vision.
Remind me which players he’s bought that are playing to a recognized system or even to their ability?
Are Martial and Rashford examples of his building?! Wow

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[Adlab]

Thought
You dont build a team by paying a 29 year old £26 million a year

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[nine nine nine]

CM, I think you have a point re Woodward but I don’t think you can absolve Mourinho of all blame. He says he needed Center Backs but he signed both Bailly and Lindehoff and now seeingly wants more Centre Backs to replace them and Bailly looked totally shorn of confidence on Sunday.

Was Neymar ever really going to United I’m not sure he was not at the £300m which would likely be needed to get him out of PSG.

Mourinho has undoubtedly made mistakes and contributed to the current situation and despite the problems with Woodward I don’t think you can absolve Jose of any responsibility as to where United are now after all he drove the all the major signings and accepting Pep started out with a stronger squad he has bought much better than Mourinho has too.

If Woodward is turning down Mourinho’s requests for additional signings which he seemingly was pre the end of the window that will have been done with the support of the owners which would suggest without there is a considerable turn around a potential parting of the ways looks likely.

Where United go from there is anybodies guess the right man for United is managing City and I’m really not sure Zidane would be the right appointment.

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[cm]

Mick Far

I have said this numerous times previously. People are underestimating the mess left behind by Van Gaal, the 27 year old DNA of Ferguson still at the club and so on. People are also underestimating Jose came 2nd last season. Their highest league position post Ferguson. It is not about a recognised system at the moment, it is about getting the right balance of players. United are a recognised centre back and right winger short. Jose saw this, unfortunately the board didn’t. These things do not fix themselves over night.

When Pep arrived at City he had De Bruyne, Silva, Aguero, Kompany, Sterling, Fernandinho at the club. When Jose arrived he had a ageing Carrick, ageing Rooney, Schneiderlin, injury prone and past his best Schweinsteiger these were his experienced players, along with deab such as Rojo, Darmian, Jones, Smalling and many others who were not good enough. The only promising things at the club were Martial, Rashford and De Gea. Pep spent 280m in 1 season to rebuild his squad last year. Jose spent 145m. That is almost twice as much and not exactly peanuts.

It is not Jose that is the problem, as proven on Sunday he saw the holes in the squad. Shame a ex investment banker thinks he knows how to build a squad capable of winning the league better than someone who has won it 3 times. Like I said he is bound to be annoyed.

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[cm]

Nine, nine, nine-

Pep in his first summer made mistakes. He spent close to 20m on a keeper, not just any keeper, vastly experienced one who was over 30, realised he was not suited for the PL and then a year later the board gave him £40m to spend on a another keeper. He spent close to 180m that summer, more than what any United manager has post Ferguson, and 30m more than Jose. People make errors in the transfer market. How many centre backs have City gone through before getting it right i.e. Savic, Mangala etc. From the looks of things Jose wanted a defender who can play from the back, who can bring the ball out. He had that at Chelsea with Carvalho, at Inter with Lucio, at Real Madrid with Varane. He probably thought Lindelof was probably his answer, but like Bravo was for City, is not suited to the PL.

Why give him a new contract in January if you’re not going to back him. If you read and listen to what Woodward says, it is about shirt sales and marketing. Spending 60m on a 29 year old Willian is not worth it, but spending 100m on a 29 year old Bale is.

Gary Neville summed it up well, why let him build 80% of the house and not let him finish it. I believe peoples opinion on Jose is overshadow their views on what is actually going on.

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[Mick Far]

Good answer CM…I respect some/most of what you say.
However, he doesn’t appear to be motivating or effectively organizing the present squad to represent a team worthy of the talent he already has recruited. Logic defies alienating your players?!

Just as you preach to look behind current events. I believe limping into 2 nd place with a large expensive squad, smoke screens what any fan could see was really being achieved against other clubs with far smaller squads….. hence a reality check for me in April when it looked like he would win the FA cup, 2 nd in the league and be given another wad of cash…

For me..Mourinho in recent years has been a “special manager” and that’s before the floors in behaving in a classy way!

Respect for your answer though

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[Mick Far]

Hasn’t been a “special manager.”

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[nine nine nine]

CM,I agree about Garry Neville synopsis of the situation and it does appear that Woodward pulled the plug on Jose but as I said he wouldn’t have done that imo without the approval of the Glazers.

I know Pep has out spent Jose and made some bad buys but imo he’s made better buys than Jose overall and Jose’s mistakes go deeper than just the transfer market imo.

Without there is a change in strategy from Woodward/the Owners it looks like it might be the beginning of the end for Jose at United to me but we’ll see how things shape up.

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[Mikus LFC]

Man Utd obviously hugely changed tack when they installed Mourinho and as was mentioned by Carragher last night, Jose generally does not coach young raw players, he is all about the now and coaches ready made already established star players. But the transfer strategy and philosophy of the club have not yet caught up with Mourinho and there’s still somewhat of a residual older philosophy at play which is probably why he’s not been fully backed because that desire to coach and build is still probably at the back of the boards minds (as CM alluded to about the legacy of Ferguson).

• This reply was modified 5 years, 8 months ago by Mikus LFC.
• This reply was modified 5 years, 8 months ago by Mikus LFC.

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[sean the sailor]

Thought Neville and Carragher were spot on. Utd traditions are well gone. Everything they said about Jose was spot on and the board etc

Think it’s far to early to write Jose and utd off now

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[cm]

Mick-

IMO coming 2nd last season was a bit of achievement considering where United came the season before. The size of the squad is irrelevant, it is all do to with quality. A fair few players are not good enough for United. Jose has bought in some quality, players he has bought in have been better than most of the players Ferguson bought post Ronaldo, better than the players bought by Moyes and Van Gaal. The likes of Darmian, Rojo, Smalling, Jones, Blind and a few more are just not good enough. He also had to get rid of Schweinsteiger, Rooney etc who were past their best. Having a large squad does not mean you have the best squad. In terms of balance United are all over the place. Jose is trying to fix that.

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[cm]

Nine-

If you look at the players both manager had when they took over it was completely opposite to what needed fixing within the squads. Pep although had a ageing defence, his experience players were there for him. Players like De Bruyne, Silva, Aguero, Kompany, Fernandinho have been key for him. Pep bought young and blended in the 2 i.e. Stones, Laporte, Sane, Jesus, Mendy.

With Jose he had some really good young footballers i.e. Martial, Rashford, Lingard, Shaw, he then topped that up with the likes of Pogba who was 23, Lukaku who was 24, Bailly who was at the time 23 and Lindelof who was 23 at the time and so on. His only experience players were Rooney, Schweinsteiger, Carrick and De Gea. Two were past their best and lost their legs, whilst 1 was close to retirement, De Gea being the only exception. He is now trying to blend his young players with some experience i.e. Willian, Toby etc. His current “experienced” players are tripe for example Smalling, Rojo. Thats why Jose bought Matic.

No doubt Pep has bought better. But I see what Jose is trying to do. End of the day he is here short term. Every successful manager has always relied on older experienced players to help out the younger players. Ferguson did it with Robson, Bruce, Pallister, Irwin, Keane, Scholes, Giggs, Wenger had it once with Adams, Campbell, Dixon, Keown, Parlour. Pep is doing it now with Fernandinho, Silva, Aguero, Kompany.

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