Home Community General Football Game week 4

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  • #185000
    Adlab
    Participant

    When you are being paid that much you should be having English lessons every day. When Mancini came to City he did just that as did many of the overseas players (Aguero apart!!).
    I think even Rooney took lessons? Er um er…….how do you say transplant? I think he got it mixed up with old boiler (not the central heating one)😊

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    #185001
    Adlab
    Participant

    PS
    Whats the latest on Elliot? Cant see anything.

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    #185002
    nine nine nine
    Moderator

    Adlab, I read somewhere his Orthopedic Consultant saying he thought he could get Elliot back playing in 6 months but he needs an operation.

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    #185008
    Mak
    Participant

    6 months? oh damn. When I heard dislocation, I was hopeful of 2-3. Thats the problem though, sometimes there will be ligament damage.

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    #185009
    Mak
    Participant

    Elliott is a big big loss for us. You’ll wonder WTF Im on about but he’s the reason we didnt bvuy a midfielder this summer. As us Liverpool alds have discussed before and I think mainly agreed, Thiago was na early replacement for Wijnaldum and Klopp has since said almost as much himself.

    Again, us Liverpool lads saw a need for another midfielder, for a variety of reasons. Elliott was that midfielder in my eyes. I was convinced after seeing him in pre-season and I think Klopp has already shown that he has HUGE faith in the lad and not just as a prospect.

    Gutted. I’d have thrown away the points yesterday just to get him back fit again. Genuinely mean that.

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    #185010
    Adlab
    Participant

    Shame for the lad. Hopefully he will get back to fitness

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    #185011
    Mikus
    Participant

    Great goal by Townsend. V good buy. Now 3-1, by Gray, another good buy. Very good start under Rafa for Everton.

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    #185012
    sean the sailor
    Participant

    I cannot stand burnley. Would love to see them go down

    Cracking goal from Townsend

    Some turn around

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    #185015
    Mak
    Participant

    I kinda like the naive versus stubborn arguments here because the symptoms are the same but only time and investment will tell them apart.

    Klopp in his first 2 seasons, played wgat some called a naive way. We’d go gungho, score a few and let the other team right back in it. We’d also strugle to break down buses, get picked off on the counter.

    After a while, it worries me that tgis was all Klopp had but once he got the players he needed, the extra layers of play developed, over time.

    Klopp of course arrives as 2 time winner of the Bundeslige and CL finalist. So, Bielsa might not have these extra layers. Will be fun finding out though.

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    #185017
    Luckydestiny
    Participant

    Ed, All I was arguing was his work was real and remarkable at Leeds and to call him a myth seemed unfair and disrespectful. You concede how great a job he has done and persist that he is a myth, I will let you argue that with those who actually have a mythical opinion.

    For me bielsa is very similar to sarri, exceptional mind for the game but dogmatic, principled and single minded.

    This means when they are given full control of a club that that is without direction they are able to create very good footballing teams that compete WAY above their wage bill and everything improves, the players the staff, the training and most importantly the results.

    However it will also mean that at the elite level they will lack the flexibility and pragmatism required. At the biggest clubs
    they also struggle to manage with limited control and are no longer able to create everything in their own image, they have to adapt to the expensively assembled team they have. As they are so dogmatic they can not live with this compromise and top clubs can’t live with them. I like you would not want bielsa at my club because we are at the elite level already and need a manager capable and willing to adapt to the opposition at highest level.

    That bielsa hasn’t proved himself at this level does not warrant criticism in itself imo, but anyone who claims he is at this level is without evidence and so that would be a myth. I can’t recall any pundit once claiming bielsa is at that level though and, until this conversation, never even thought that there was such a myth around him. Its just a lot of praise from elite coaches around the world for some of his methods and he has done a cracking job at Leeds.

    You are just as pissed as me and Nine that they didn’t take points off pool lol be honest πŸ™‚

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    #185019
    Chucky McChuckface
    Participant

    He’s definately pissed, he thinks Chelski are going to drop points this weekend… πŸ™‚

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    #185020
    Luckydestiny
    Participant

    Regards naivety, maybe we are naive in thinking bielsa has the talent at his disposal that would allow changes in approach week in week without drastically reducing the teams efficiency in long term.

    Bielsa’s approach is that in order to be a good team you don’t necessarily need great players but you need to be better at what you are trying to do than the opponent is at what they are trying to do. How do you get good at something? You do it over and over again, and that’s what bielsa does. He creates a teams in which every player understands his role and purpose more than the opposition through sheer repetitiveness. This means they will win more often than not against teams who on paper are just as good as them and also punch above their weight. However against elite opposition the differences in quality of player can not be eliminated and will always show through as we see.

    Bielsa looks at 38 games and if they get the points they need after 38 games he is not naive at all.

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    #185022
    Pagan
    Participant

    Lucky

    How do you get good at something? You do it over and over again

    Whilst that is true, I would call that practicing, however if you continually practicing the wrong thing you just become very good at doing the wrong thing.

    That’s the difference between practicing and training/coaching

    …………Pagan

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    #185023
    Luckydestiny
    Participant

    Yeah of course pagan but in the context of this discussion you don’t get promotion and survive like Leeds have through practicing the wrong things do you.

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    #185024
    Luckydestiny
    Participant

    And pagan Leeds rise all to do with good coaching how else could it be explained the team he inherited was dog shite.

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    #185025
    Mikus
    Participant

    One of the most important attributes a team can have is an identity. Players like simple instructions in terms of how they’re going to play and what their role is, though the football has to be effective too. Leeds under Bielsa obviously have this very strong identity, and it does the job of keeping Leeds comfortably in the league. The football also excites the fans and keeps them on board. To some extent Arsenal had this under Wenger, and there were countless times pundits bemoaned Arsenal’s lack of adaptability when going away to big rivals and just still playing their own way. Arsenal had their success when they also had top players and physical players like Viera to help with the defensive side. I don’t watch enough of Leeds, but if, hypothetically, you threw a player like Kante into that Leeds side, would that make their football more sustainable?

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    #185026
    Mikus
    Participant

    Just another thought. When Arsenal did replace Wenger with Emery, a more tactically minded manager, did it fail because it was going from one extreme to the other, which the players maybe struggled with and the fans struggled to get behind?

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    #185027
    Luckydestiny
    Participant

    I think emery failed because expectations of fans was vastly disproportionate to the talent of squad and arguably he deserved more time mikus.

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    #185028
    Pagan
    Participant

    Lucky, he obviously coached the right things in order to get promoted, and he did that very well, however the premier league is a different beast and as such needs a different approach.

    So I would suggest he’s either not changed what he’s coaching, and that system isn’t as successful at prem level, or he’s got players that are slow to take on the changes he’s trying to make.

    …………Pagan

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    #185029
    Mikus
    Participant

    I mostly agree Lucky, though I do think that because the football was quite different under Emery, the fans just felt less excited by it even though they finished slightly better off than they did in Wenger’s last season. I don’t think we can underestimate the impact of the fans here and their desire to see attacking football no matter the cost. There was an interesting article I read regarding Norwich, and how some of their fans basically said they’d rather see attacking exciting football they can get behind, rather than more defensive football – even if the latter saw them having a better chance of staying in the premier league.

    But back to Arsenal, I think the thinking has been to bring their identity back by bringing in a young manager in with potential as well as bringing some exciting young talent in. I think the idea is correct but it’s been very badly executed.

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