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Mak, if not naieve perhaps a tad too obstinate as it took Klopp far too long to recognise he had a problem at Centre back and that there was a problem in the Goalkeeping position.
Had Klopp addressed those problems earlier in the way that he has now perhaps Liverpool’s progress would have been greater than it is now.
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The Van Dijk purchase, along with Keita have taken too long, that’s true but he wants the players that he wants. I’ve less of a problem with this, as long as we continue to improve, as I have with the Karius situation.
It’s very possible that the players we’ve brought in will need time to settle. With midfield, that’s 2 of the 3 changed, so it might not start too well for us. Then maybe Lovren goes to shit again and we’re stuck waiting for another top CB.
I wouldn’t say that either scenario will be a mark on Klopp as a manager, as long as they are righted as soon as we can afford to do so. It’s these kinds of reasons why I want to steer away from Jose’s demand that Liverpool win the title. He’d only love to have the media talking about whether Klopp should be fired next season if we finish 4th again. As long as they are talking about Klopp, they aren’t talking about Jose.
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Mak, Klopp has been at Liverpool 3 years in October and the Goalkeeping and Centre back issues have been around since then.
Klopp put sticking plasters on the problem with the likes of Matip and Karius to no avail and he couldn’t seem to make his mind up as to who should be the No 1 Keeper between Mignolet and Karius. He’s not without mistakes mate.
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Nine, LFC have certainly backed Klopp massively but is that progress that can be put down to Klopp? How do you judge progress, surley it is based on winning things and getting more points. You cannot dispute that LFC have been more sucessfull many times in the past 30 years than they have under klopp. Sorry but you do appear to have been swept up in the hype surrounding him. I suspect there is a more than even chance that he will be shown the door if he doesnt win something next season after 4 years in charge. I am right in thinking the last thing he won was in 2012? I also doubt Mouriniho will be at United at the end of the sesson for exactly that reason.
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The way City won last season makes them favourites to win again, even if they so far haven’t strengthened that much. I don’t think Mahrez really improves them.
Liverpool have done the best business so far and have improved in key areas.
To be honest I don’t know much about Fred, but hopefully he’ll add to United’s midfield and help Pogba become more like the player we saw at the WC.
usually wins the league when the change managers, so it would be foolish to rule them out.
Spurs had quite a few players who played a long WC, so will that affect them?
Arsenal don’t look much better than last year, even if changing managers (finally) could inspire them.
Realistically IMO that is, top four will be City, United, Liverpool and Chelsea. Spurs and Le Arse just missing out.
Hopefully top four will be United, Spurs, Liverpool and Chelsea with City relegated._____________________________
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“Mak, Klopp has been at Liverpool 3 years in October and the Goalkeeping and Centre back issues have been around since then. ”
Well, yes and no. The GK situation wasn’t anywhere near as a bad with Mignolet. I know most don’t rate him as a keeper but I do. He has the odd howler in him but he’s an excellent shot stopper. Now, even with that in mind, Klopp doesn’t rate him so he “addressed” in with karius. The same happens when you look at CB, he bought Matip. Neither player has really worked out but you can;t use the whole time he’s been here in that way because it’s not like he’s sat on his hands. He got people in and had to give them time.
Even then, Matip was pretty good when he first joined. People went over the top in praising him but none the less, Matip looked like an improvement.
“Nine, LFC have certainly backed Klopp massively but is that progress that can be put down to Klopp? How do you judge progress, surley it is based on winning things and getting more points.”
I know you’ve asked Nine but I’ll address this if you don’t mind. The answer for me is yes the progress is largely down to Klopp. As for the second part, if you want to judge him on the points he gets without winning the PL, you have to also do the same regards progress in the CL. We only got a point more but we nearly won the best cup competition in the game.
So, ya, we’re a better team pretty much every season under him, one way or the other. Just because the media love to heap praise on him, doesn’t mean it’s just hype either. We’re considered to be a big club again and it’s thanks to our owners, himself and his team. He doesn’t get all the credit but he’ll get most of it.
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“I suspect there is a more than even chance that he will be shown the door if he doesnt win something next season after 4 years in charge.”
If our signings don’t work out and things fall apart then anything is possible but if we qualify for the CL for a 3rd successive season then there is zero chance of him being fired. So I wouldn’t place any bets if I were you.
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More chance of Jose and Sarri sacked mid-season than Klopp imho.
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Mak sounds like you are turning into Arsenal and celebrating that 4th place. Also sounds like you think Klopp doesn’t have to win anything next season as long as he gets that 4th spot? What about the season after? Do you agree with nines statement that Liverpool have made more progress under Klopp the last three seasons than at any point in the last 30years?
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Srd, with mendy missing 90% of the season it will like having two new signings. Plus I think the young players like Sane, Stones and Sterling will get even better.
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“Perhaps Liverpool’s biggest problem is that at the time of such progress in the PL probably their greatest progress in the last circa 30 years there is this outstanding City team/squad.”
The above is what I said re Liverpool perhaps it should have read at the time of such “potential” progress in the PL.
Personally I think the starting eleven Liverpool have now is one of the best they’ve had in a very long time but they’re still short squad wise imo and vulnerable defendively at right back and potentially through Lovren ( think Spurs at Wembley) and perhaps they are also short of creativity in midfield and of a recognised striker too.
But they can’t address every problem in one transfer window.
If they continue to develop and strengthen where they still need to strengthen they won’t be far away from winning the title going forwards imo and whilst I think they will challenge City this season I don’t think Liverpool have a strong enough squad to win it over this City team/ squad Liverpool are progressing but it’s to their misfortune that they have to overcome such an outstanding team/squad as City.
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Mak, I agree Liverpool’s progress is largely down to Klopp but ultimately Managers are judged by what they win and coming up to three years of his tenure Klopp still has to win a trophy and he’s lost three Finals and the one v Sevilla he really should have won.
If I’m being hyper critical of Klopp I still think tactically he’s still a bit flawed defensively and Liverpool often lack a plan b when they need one and he got it wrong with Mignolet, Karius and Matip with the Centre back and Goalkeeping positions needing attention long before he actioned it.
I also agree with Jim and think that there is a limit as to how long the owners will put up with not winning trophies whether CL qualification continues or not.
Having said all of that I think Liverpool are in for a good season and they will imo progress in the League and should win a domestic Cup but where Klopp goes from there though will determine how successful his tenure will be at Liverpool.
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All managers are naive look at pep in Europe. Crazy decision pushing Ferhindo back to centre back and we controlled the game from there on in. City were well on top and had us rattled. Baffling decision
As much as klopp is under pressure for a trophy so is pep for the cl. He’s been poor in Europe in recent years
Time will tell. This is strongest side we have had since 2009. We can beat anyone in our day as we showed by destroying city at Anfield.
Cut out the silly draws and who knows but klopp will get more time. He’s the best manager we have had since Rafa.the fans know it and so do the owners
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I was waiting for someone to say that Sean. The best manager since Rafa!
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We’ve done Liverpool to death now the proof of the pudding will be in the eating.
Spurs one to eleven are a very good team too and if they make a couple of signings you never know they’ve gone close before.
Be great to see a three way fight for the title but it’s going to take a very very good team to finish above City.
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Jim, mate, you have a great squad. No doubt. Finish above you and you’re champions, I’m sure.
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Is that a dig at Rafa? Kinda saying that it’s not much of a statement? Cause Rafa has won more CLs than City. He’s a brilliant manager and had he FSG backing him instead of Micky and m=Minnie Mouse, he’d probably have gone on to win the PL and who knows , another CL final or 2.
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No dig at all at Rafa so wind your neck in Mak. Sean just justified my response to nine. Rafa was far more successful and LFC showed much more progress under him than you have to date under Klopp.
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Jim, but was the team that Rafa built as good as this current Liverpool team? I’m not sure it was. Rafa’s greatest achievement at Liverpool was the CL win in 2005 but compare that CL winning team to this one.
However you’re right Rafa was far more succesful at Liverpool than Klopp has been so far winning the CL in his first season and the FA Cup in his second season whilst Klopp coming up to three years at Liverpool is yet to win a trophy.
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Jim wasn’t having a go at rafa at all
Last really good bit of success we had was under rafa.
Now we are moving forward. It feels the most positive since rafa was here. Even under Rodgers and that great season I didn’t think we would push on.
We badly need to win something now.
This was a good debate lads. Don’t to bits now but some interesting posts_____________________________
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