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“The inability to switch tactics for teams is surprising for me.”
“You canβt win a PL title by fluke its over 38 games and a true test. Having said that I think we were fortunate to stumble into a system that caught everyone out”
442, to address your post in general and Nine’s quote. First off, I do feel your frustration and I have felt the same way at times over the years with various managers. yes, it would be good for managers to be flexible but the vast majority of them are very stubborn and play to their strengths.
I am not a Conte expert by any means but what you’ve said about Conte stumbling onto a working system of 3 at the back. . It may have looked that way due to the circumstances but this is his preferred method of playing. He used a 3-5-2 at Juve to win him all those titles. The thing for me and I don’t want to make a solid, direct comparison cause again, I’m no expert but it’s my belief that what he did for Pirlo, was what he did for Matic. If we think about this and just how massively important Pirlo was to Conte then maybe we can understand why he’s completely derailed and lost trust in the Chelsea board.
They moved took the keystone out of his team and I think that this is the fulcrum of the issue. He didn’t want to sell his most important player but they thought that they knew better. . . and look, they really don’t. He knows they’ve messed up his season and his ability to defend the title and he’s gone off the tracks.
I have bags of sympathy for you Chelsea lads as it;s lookign grim for you with regards t next seasons CL. . cause as a Liverpool fan, you can imagine that I consider you guys to be a big CL club. We have played eachother so many times in it. I also have a lot of sympathy for Conte cause I’ve seen what happens when the board/owners think they know more about the game than a top trophy winning manager.
regardless, Conte clearly want to go I think. he knows he’ll never achieve anything there because he’ll be screwed over and have his efforts ruined. The thing is though, you guys still have something to play for and need to get someone else in NOOOOOW.
he needs to be fired immediately if you lads want to get back into the race for the top 4. It’s that simple.
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Makaveli. I think he would be delighted to be fired!
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Pagan, yes perhaps stumbled was the wrong word but 3 at the back which caught the rest of the PL on the hop was imo one of the factors in winning Chelsea the title. Cheers 999
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Mak, without wishing to absolve Conte of any of yesterday’s negatives in wasting Hazard in the false 9 role in not changing it when it obviously wasn’t working in making such late substitutions and the wrong substitutions when we were only a goal down.
There’s more to this whole thing than meets the eye and Conte is not the only guilty party at Chelsea imo.
For the life of me I can’t see why a Manager takes the blame for a poor season when it’s clear he’s not been fully in charge of who comes in and who goes out.
Having said that you can’t be in a key position in a Major Company and then continuously tell the media that your bosses don’t know what they’re doing even if there’s some truth in it.
Ironically what Conte said about the club needing to show ambition is right imo we’re miles behind City currently and last season’s PL title was a one off due to various circumstances and if City continue to spend an average of over Β£100m net per season more than Chelsea as they have over the last two seasons it will be very difficult for Chelsea and probably everyone else to catch City. Friday though and announcing that to the assembled press though accurate was wrong imo.
This all needs sorting out properly at Chelsea this time round once Conte has gone because Conte aside it’s become a bit of a “Never Ending Story”. Massive Summer for Chelsea coming up imo which will dictate the short/ medium direction of the club going forwards .Were in Roman’s hands now and he needs to get it right from here.
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Nine, no offence but you are talking complete bollox saying stuff like if City continue to spend Β£100m per season more than Chelsea? Have you seen the age of our sqaud? Have you seen young Foden and Diaz etc. Bet you a nice box of chocolates we wont spend more than Chelsea this summer or next winter! Pep has overhauled the squad albeit at huge cost but he clearly doesnt need to do that again for a long time and you cannot argue that he hasn’t spent very wisely unlike others. Jim
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Jim, Let’s hope not but in net terms City have spent well over Β£200m more than Chelsea in Pep’s first team seasons and it would have broken Β£300m had the offer for Mahrez been accepted.
You say the squad is almost complete and you’re right but the objective s to win the CL and I can see City buying one or two superstars going forwards like Neymar etc.
Pep’s other by advantage over Conte is that the players coming in are all his choices.
I think Chelsea will spend big this Summer but not in net terms and only because they will recieve getting on for Β£300m for Hazard and Courtois. But that’s not strengthening team/ squad that is currently miles behind City’s already so maybe not b****x eh!
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Nope nine, I stand by my comment. Also its a debateable point I know but I doubt whether you will get anywhere near 200m let alone 300m for hazard and courtois. Simply because neither are anywhere near as good as you think they are im affraid. Weve had this conversation before and Hazard just isnt consistent enough to be classed as a world beater. Far too many average games. Even Sunday despite the system he was played in he could have done alot more, but instead chose to sit on his backside and complain rather then drop deep and get involved in the game. Jim
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Interesting debate chaps, don’t mind if I jump in! (I’ve got my sensible hat on!).
As for Courtious, I think the Doughnut Thief is Real’s first choice, so if they get him then Courtious is going nowhere and even then, if he does go, I think Chelsea will do will to get anything north of 70 mil for him… and that’s without him chucking his toys out the pram. I would be genuinely impressed if the Chelsea get anything close to 100 as been suggested.
Hazard is a strange one. Like Big J, I’ve never been “brilliantly” impressed when I’ve watched him for 90 minutes. A great player, yes, but still a long way short of the “superstar” bracket which would want a “superstar” price tag. Sure, he looks great on match of the day, and obviously I don’t watch him week-in, week-out, certainly in the Wee Phil bracket, and priced accordingly. Be very surprised/impressed if it’s anything over 130 mil.
I reckon the one thing we can all agree on though, these numbers for footballers are getting bloody ridiculous.
I’ll pass on the “net-spend” element of the debate argument…. π
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My thoughts precisely Chucky. Hazard for me is Coutiniho money but even then he isn’t as consistent as Coutiniho. Courtois is harder to define value wise as it depends more on who wants a quality keeper. And not many will spend 50m plus on a keeper.
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I don’t think courtouis is as good as chech is for the goonys- I have him back in a heartbeat over courtouis.
Hazard is about 150 million given inflation and I think hazard is a more consistent player. But I want both gone as I think they’re disruptive. Hazard is one of the worst strikers I’ve seen, but one of the best left wingers.
Got to get rid of conte first as his second season has been very average and he has cost the club points with tactics and selections. Not impressed with him or the attitude of some senior players in the dressing room.
The way to play deep was seen at Brighton but the manager then loaned out a striker who scores goals because he didn’t know how to integrate him into the side.
Manager and players need to be sold and fresh faces and ideas brought to the club. Conte isn’t the answer long term while we redevelop the ground and start playing the youth to supplement incoming transfers.
Big Jim… pep doubles down on transfer spending and spent more than anyone other league side. It’s exactly what united did through the 90’s with saf
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Itβs exactly what united did through the 90βs with saf
That is far from correct. Newcastle, City(1st 5 years of the PL era) and Liverpool outspent United. There was also Blackburn in the early to mid 90s.
http://www.transferleague.co.uk/manchester-united/english-football-teams/manchester-united-transfers
http://www.transferleague.co.uk/manchester-city/english-football-teams/manchester-city-transfers
http://www.transferleague.co.uk/newcastle-united/english-football-teams/newcastle-united-transfers
http://www.transferleague.co.uk/liverpool/english-football-teams/liverpool-transfers
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The way I see it, you basically have 3 different types of managers. You have Group 1 who are basically playing a real life version of Championship Manager, namely buy whoever they fancy, Group 2, who spent larger on specific players to go into their team as they don’t quite have unlimited funds, and Group 3 who buy players with potential and coach them into their team.
There’s always going to a team that spends more than everybody else every year, arguing about who’s turn it is, is about as pointless as the Goonies over the last few weeks.
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It’s pointless discussing what Chelsea will or will not get for Hazard and Courtois what will decide it is how much Real want them and how much Chelsea are prepared to sell them for but an offer of Β£130m for Hazard would I suspect be quickly rejected by Chelsea.
Also judging Hazard on Sunday is plain silly.
Realistically I suspect if Hazard is to go he we will go for circa Β£150m plus and that Courtois will go for circa Β£50m.
If the valuations on the players aren’t met Chelsea won’t sell particularly Hazard as they will be very reluctant sellers anyway.
If both players are sold plus one or two on the periphery with additional funds from the club Chelsea will likely be the biggest spenders this summer possibly spending up to Β£400m but the majority of it will come from player sales which is not how City do it and is not strengthening the team/squad. As we’ve seen with the sake of Costa and Matic!
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Cm fair points mate, my take on Newcastle and Blackburn is there came a point when the owners stopped spending. United have always had the financial strength to out muscle teams in the transfer market and have never stopped spending. That’s the way they’re set up. Chelsea had it and built an unbelievable side. Football is cyclical unless you are a United fan in which case you’ve had it good for years and years. City now really buying a second side after the initial Abu Dhabi investment with Mancini.
Not upset by the spending but when you can truely outspend a rival then you should be winning. What is happening at Chelsea is in part to complying to ffp. My gripe is the waste of cash on players, the lack of youth integration when the sides are dominating competitions and the fact that I can’t stand football where there are two banks of players not even going to the ball.
Cfc lost it losing to the likes of Burnley and palace. Again with abject miserable performances.
City play great football but my word they need to for any kind of justification on the outlay. Perhaps the empty seats are fans that simply are lost among the millions, certainly the case if you go from the stadium to a semi that a person has taken 20 years to pay a mortgage off on. It makes no sense even for entertainment.
But
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“Its pointless discussing what Chelsea will or will not get for Hazard and Courtois what will decide it is how much Real want them and how much Chelsea are prepared to sell them for”
Well you started it nine! ?
Anyway it’s just my opinion in the debate.
Ps I’m not just judging hazard on one game, we’ve had this conversation before. Imo he simply isn’t consistent enough to be considered top class. Sounds like I am not alone in that opinion. Cheers Jim
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Big J… did you notice Goldie already knocked off 100m so far this morning? Wait till after lunch and it will be a “BOGOF!”… π
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Fair comment 442.
IMO United spending was no different to a fair few sides in the PL during the 90s with the exception of the summer of 98. At times they were the 4th,5th,6th biggest spenders during the season.
After losing key players such as Hughes, Ince and Kanchelskis in 95, Ferguson promoted 5 youth players in the Neville brothers, Scholes, Butt and Beckham. He also did not spend in the summer of 99.
What changed for United was the popularity of the PL across the globe, they exploited this in order to generate more revenue and funds. The thing about Ferguson was he will use his whole budget on 1 quality player, whilst others would spend a bit more on several players. For example in 94, Ferguson bought Keane at 3.5m the only player he bought that season, whilst City bought several players for a combined total of 6m, Blackburn spent 13m on several players etc.
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Jim, not really you and I were discussing transfer expenditure and you were telling me City will be low spenders in the Summer whilst Chelsea will be big spenders and I agreed with you on Chelsea spending big this Summer but only on the back of selling Hazard and Courtois.
And selling to strengthen when they are you’re best players isn’t strengthening imo and is certainly not what City do and certainly won’t help Chelsea keep up with City. Of the Chelsea title winning side if both are sold that will be four players sold who were integral to winning the title last season and you don’t try and keep up with City doing that!
When all the dust has settled on the Summer transfer window I bet you a box of Mars Bars that City will still have had a higher net spend than Chelsea perhaps not as high as the Β£250m net more that Pep has spent over Conte in the past two seasons but more never the less and given the strength of squad Pep inherited and how much money City are continuing to throw at it remember Mahrez would have arrived for circa Β£80m in January had Leicester agreed to the transfer it will be very difficult for Chelsea and anyone else bar United to compete with City going forwards.
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ps Jim, players who aren’t too class aren’t desired by Real Madrid and don’t have a circa Β£150m perhaps upwards valuation. But you’re entitled to your opinion!. Having watched Hazard numerous times live in the flesh and close up I have a different opinion and so presumably do Real. Hopefully it all comes to nothing and Hazard is still at Chelsea next season.
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If the likes of Mbappe, Coutinho and Dembele went for over 120m, then Hazard is worth more than them. Hazard may not be consistent at times, but even on a poor day, he can still do something out of nothing. That is what world class players do. The difference between Chelsea winning the league title in 2015 and 2017 was Hazard. If Spurs or any other side in the top 6 had Hazard during that season, they would have gone on to win the league title.
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