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Pagan, that’s very true and they also have more home grown Coaches too.
As I said I’m not against the philosophy but even if the FA were actively pursuing this route now it won’t provide an English Manager to takeover from Southgate if we completely flop in the Euros then probably the best choice would be Eddie Howe if we could persuade him to leave the comforts of Bournemouth.
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Mr Pagan, ‘The Foreign Legion’ was a phrase used in the early, sort of mid 1990s. Dimitri Kharine??
1994-5-6-7 had a more foreign Chelsea players. I remember probably a small minority in Gavin Peacock, Eddie Newton, Frank Sinclair, et al. It’s certainly not an intention to criticise and ‘pull up’. It’s something I experienced.
Chelsea and Arsenal too started this ‘trend’.
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C/Man, that’s true and I wholeheartedly agree.
It’s frustration essentially not having a Weekend of Domestic Football.
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Pagan as always it’s good to share some posts with you always enjoy our chats and would have been happy to continue.
But I sense though it’s probably time for me to turn in now. Cheers 9’s
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999, I’m an early bird, so tend to get to bed at 10ish, long gone are the 24 hour party person.
It’s difficult as a nation playing catch-up, but at least we’ve started, so hopefully we’ll catch up and push on and not become complacent…..Pagan
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Mr. Balance, Chelsea went down the route of using overseas players in the 90s as Ken Bates was trying to raise the profile of the club, he did this by buying in players that represented very good value for money, some were big names that had reached their sell by dates, others were just under valued. I was staggered when Gullit came to Chelsea.
We also bought Zola for about ÂŁ4.5m who was fantastic for Chelsea, at a similar time Alan Shearer went to Newcastle for ÂŁ15m, which shows the value for money in those days in buying overseas players.My original point was having non English players though is nothing new, with Liverpool When they first started in the 1890s having a squad that only had 25% of them English. Also worth noting on that point is that London is closer to France than Liverpool is to Scotland.
In summary, playing non nationals is nothing new, and in the past overseas players were far better value for money….Pagan
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I think the FA “suits” also have a lot to answer for in their decision making. After the tactical naivety of Keegan, they had a rush of blood to the head and appointed Sven, a much more tactical manager but one not really suited to knockout tournament football. Then there were the calls to go back English after that failed and they appointed McClaren, someone who at that point had no where near the experience needed. That unsurprisingly failed. Then they made another reactive decision by opting for another very tactically experienced manager in Capello. That didn’t go terribly well for similar reasons to Sven, and I think that burnt their fingers in terms of appointing foreign managers again, at least for the foreseeable future. So they’ve opted for Hodgson, Allardyce & Southgate ever since and stayed English. Whilst I’m very much with Pagan’s plans for the long term as regards to developing our own coaches (something Spain invested heavily in some years ago of which they later reaped the rewards), I just think in the mean time we could find a better manager in the world pool of talent to take us forward – if we got our criteria right and stopped looking at very tactical managers.
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Mr Pagan, it’s all very well reasoning with this type of nuance which benefited your club but where does that leave our national team in terms of nurturing those coming through the academy?
I’m not interested in singling out ‘A’ club, as Arsenal too went down ‘this road’.
My whole purpose was exploring the past to understand the present as to how we got to where we are now??
I am glad all that nonsense with the ‘Golden Generation’ has disappeared. Southgate is a Good Decent Guy. I am fed up though in seeing the same players or players chosen from the same handful of clubs and others not getting a look-in which is what this should be about – an opportunity for EVERYONE.
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Mr. Balance, you’ve totally missed the point, Liverpool when they first formed had a squad made up of 75% foreign players, that means it’s been going on to well over 100 years, you could say Liverpool started the trend.
For me the lack of talent has nothing to do with the importing of talent from abroad, it’s more the fact we as a country failed to develop our own, the top players we produced over the last 30 years were not due to the the quality of coaching we have but despite it.
In respect of players coming from only a few clubs, well talented players will always migrate to the clubs they feel will give them the greatest success and the greatest rewards.
Change is slow in this respect as you have to start with the youngest players and develop them. This process starts with the kids who are 6-8 years old, so the process for the players we’re seeing now started 10 to 12 years ago.
Unfortunately at the highest level of any sport there is no “opportunity for everyone” just an opportunity for the most talented….Pagan
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Mikus, for me the closed shop approach in football has to change, apparently you can’t be a top coach unless you’ve played at the top level, jobs for the boys in effect, it’s a bit like saying a doctor can’t treat a terminal disease unless he’s died himself.
For me we need to bring in fresh ideas from other sports and beyond, in a similar vein to British Cycling using the marginal gains initiative that has brought them so much success.
A players technical skills are developed at club level, an international manager needs to bring the talent together in a blend that works, that’s tactics, mentality and desire, only the tactics is footy specific, the rest is man management, so a charismatic leader supporters by a team with the tactical nouse maybe the way to go….Pagan
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Mr Pagan, I honestly don’t know where you’re getting this 75% from?
I’m alluding anyway more towards players bought from abroad. I mentioned Torben Piechnik last night to cite him as an example of how many duds Liverpool had purchased. I may well be a Liverpool supporter, but I will happily and openly acknowledge this.
Nurturing somebody from the academy or investing in somebody paying a so-called high price might have been a better investment.
History has shown though, nothing is exact science in a player working out wherever he’s from.
You mention talent. There are plenty out there heaven knows with potential and talent. The point is, some of them will probably not try as hard knowing they are likely to be noticed only if they are playing for a so-called ‘big club’.
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Mr. Balance, Liverpool’s first squad of players when they first formed as a club were 75% Scottish and as such were ineligible to play for England, it’s not a modern thing, Scottish or Swedish it matters not one jot when it comes to football, if you’re not English, you’re a foreigner.
If there’s a player that probably doesn’t try as hard as he’s not at a so called bigger club, then probably he doesn’t have the right mentality to be an elite athlete, and that would be the reason he is where he is…..Pagan
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I must be missing something.?
All of Tomori, Mount, Loftus Cheek,Abraham and Hudson Odoi are young English players from the Chelsea Academy from the age of 6/8.
4 of them are already full England internationals Tomori is allegedly about to be given his first cap v Bulgaria on Monday.
In terms of player recruitment and managerial appointments Clubs will always do what they think is best for them they don’t have any allegiance to the England team if they did Foden would be a full England international by now.
The reality is that we now have some great young English players coming through to the England team Eddie Howe is an exciting English Coach and whose to say Steve Holland doesnt come to the fore too others like Scott Parker, Lee Bowyer and Lee Johnson might well eventually come through too.
I like Pagans idea but it will still require Clubs to give promising English Coaches a chance rather than just plumping for a foreign Manager.
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999, I’m not sure if I made it really clear, but I was thinking of the division 1 and 2 teams being encouraged by the FA to embrace new English managers, this would be by bringing in mentorship for them and maybe some financial incentives for the clubs. It’s going to be a long process, but the players you mention are 12 years in the making and that coincides with Romans investment and focus on player development within Chelsea’s own academy…..Pagan
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Not a football international but that was a hell of a performance by Japan in the Rugby World Cup beating Scotland. Japan as a country has suffered terribly in the last few days and whilst it won’t bring back the estimated 32 tragically killed but it will be a boost for the Japanese nation. RIP those lost.
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999, credit has to go to the NZ team whose game was cancelled yesterday due to the typhoon, today they’ve been out helping with the clean up, legends…..Pagan
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As did the Canadian team…..Pagan
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Absolutely Pagan well said.
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Qualifiers taking their toll on Chelsea Christensen injured v Switzerland, Kante tweaks a hamstring with France, Kovacic his natural replacement limps off v Wales and Ampadu is injured v Croatia too although he’s currently on loan at Leipzig.
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This has to be our worst International break. 3 key players are injured already. and we are only in the first matches. we don’t know what the other matches will bring also. we lost Kante, and you would have said Kovacic could play in his absence. he is also injured. and Christensen is injured which means we only have 2 fit CBs, plus one out and out CM player in Jorginho. Frank has a big task ahead of him once the PL resumes. fingers crossed that one or two returns from their injury.
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