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Adlab..I like that idea of Mount, Foden and Maddison as long as they have good players around them that will do there job. None of them I would call midfield destroyers or generals but with the right choice of CB and full back/winger they could become a high quality unit. I think the problem England have is that they do not have enough quality players, a somewhat surprising statement considering the history and culture of our game but that is where we are and make do with what we have
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The reality is that we are not blessed with great players in all positions and FA policy currently is rightly or wrongly that only an Englishman will manage England.
If you fish in a small pool you won’t pull out a big fish and if we cast our line in the pool again under the same guidelines we still won’t pull out a big fish.
Last night was the first qualifying game England have lost in 10 years, Southgate’s results have to date been good and he’s contracted until 2022 we will still probably quality for the Euro Finals how England do and where we go from there though is anyone’s guess my guess is that Southgate will see us into qualifying for the World Cup Finals because if the requirement remains of only appointing an Englishman the pond remains very shallow.
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999, that’s a bit harsh on English managers, really to be a good international manager you need experience at a high level, and I would say preferably in more than one country.
A bit like developing our own players, which is now starting to happen(long process when your raw material is the 8 year old) we now need to start developing managers and giving them a chance, which is easier said than done, maybe we have to make the junior national teams a well paid option for them as you can’t expect domestic clubs to sacrifice success to develop them, however it would be nice to see some of them give an English manager a go….Pagan
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For the first time a decade Spain is lacking an outstanding player or at least on par in quality with others. but still teams are scared to take the game to it. before they had been blowing teams out in the first half. now they are labouring. and Kepa is looking to have ousted De Gea as the first choice at Spain.
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Pagan, leaving aside Lampard and it’s too early for him who of any real merit who is English is there?
Hodgson has had his time which leaves perhaps Eddie Howe perhaps even Sean Dyche but I suspect many would be unhappy with such an appointment. Aside from them who is ready to takeover from Southgate.
Managers have to cut their teeth at League level before moving into international management imo.
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Chelseaman, I don’t think Spain are quite what they were but they’ve still won 6 out of 6 of their qualifiers up to tonight.
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999, which is what I said, because like young players they’re not given the chance, so currently we have a plethora of overseas managers, the same old English ones that go from mediocrity to mediocrity, and the odd ex player that’s thrown in at the deep end as a sacrificial lamb.
The FA need to put some sort of career path in for English managers that starts them at the bottom and brings them through, with financial support for mentorship. Having said that the ex players need to understand that they need to start at the bottom and not just walk into a high profile job.
Both Lampard and Gerrard seem to be doing well, but it’s early days for both….Pagan
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Mav, I think some of them are just selected by default mate lol 😀
You are right about Hendo as much as I love him as my own 🙂
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I think it’s a cultural problem – I agree that managers really need to go abroad to gain more experience. Bobby Robson did. Terry Venables did. But we just don’t tend to see it very often. English is obviously a global language and there’s less onus on us to learn other languages. And if you’re a manager like Dyche or Howe and you’ve got a comfortable job then why risk jumping off at the deep end and making a name for yourself somewhere else in a foreign country? You can understand why they don’t – but then, they can’t really complain when they keep getting overlooked for bigger jobs. A similar thing may be said of Bale with regards to the language which has perhaps exacerbated his problems at Madrid. If you’re to have sustained success abroad and really make a name for yourself, you have to also embrace the culture and language. You cant just go half in.
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Pagan, so we are agreed we’re fishing in a small pool. So not so harsh. ?
Clubs can’t be forced to appoint English Managers and had there not been a transfer ban I’m pretty sure Chelsea would have probably appointed someone like Allegri rather than Frank.
Football is highly competitive and Clubs looking to win the biggest trophies will appoint on ability and previous reputation and to win the biggest trophies Leicester aside you need top Managers and top players most of whom won’t be English.
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999, you seem to be limiting yourself to fishing in a small pond, that’s where we go wrong, we need to be digging a lake. We’ve looked abroad and started to develop players using the methods we’ve seen, we now need to do that with coaches. I can’t be arsed to do the legwork but it would be interesting to see how many managers in the second tiers of the major European leagues are nationals of the said leagues.
Most of the top overseas coaches that come to England have a CV that show a progression through the leagues, we don’t seem to look close to home, believing foreign is best for some unknown reason.
Overseas clubs are now looking at taking the youth we develop abroad, that shows how far we have come with players, we just need to put the same effort into coaching…..Pagan
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From the evidence of this thread, I can see, or sense point blank words:
“Mason Mount” Lots of times, followed by Frank Lampard, followed by Chelsea.
It’s no wonder there’s very little ACTUAL objectivity.
Doesn’t surprise me in the slightest.
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Mikus, that part of the culture unfortunately changed from early mid 90s when more Foreigners were enlisted and for the sake of it. From our own club POV and Souness, Torben Piechnik 1992.
Having said that though, that didn’t matter as we had English Players.
Chelsea seemed to have gone down the avenue in investing in more Foreign Players, for their own and that’s their port of call.
I think we just then found our way through a cluster of players through a combination of CONVENIENCE and QUALITY.
Beckham I hated him and only got his place in the England squad because of Jamie Redknapp’s injury problems. Managers just conveniently picked Manchester United Players.
I think ESSENTIALLY, this HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE PROBLEM.
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Pagan, saved you some leg work:
Spain La Liga2
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/segunda-division/trainervergleich/wettbewerb/ES2
Germany Bundesliga2
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/2-bundesliga/trainervergleich/wettbewerb/L2
France Ligue2
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ligue-2/trainervergleich/wettbewerb/FR2
Italy Seria B
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/serie-b/trainervergleich/wettbewerb/IT2
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Mr. Balance, Liverpool’s first squad of players were 75% Scottish, so having a large contingent of foreign players is nothing new….Pagan
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Pagan, it’s a nice philosophy but I don’t think it will happen and even if it did I don’t know how it could be put into practice.
The major Clubs chasing trophies will generally go for the big tried and tested.
It’s a bit like the Rooney rule nice idea but I can’t see it making any difference.
But more importantly we need to go back to my original post I was talking about the here and now re who might be suitable to replace Southgate and whilst the first requirement remains they must be English the choices are very limited.
On the one hand I agree with the philosophy of they must be English but if you want to be the best I think you have to appoint the best immaterial of nationality.
Having said that I would like nothing more than to see a raft of FA developed great English Managers coming through but practically I can’t see it happening Managers have to develop at the coal face and develop upwards and that requires someone to be successful managing at Club level.
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Nil
All of us judge things on a tainted glass at a times. and forgive me if talked about Mason Mount. because that is what matters to me at the minute. the same way you also like to talk about Liverpool. it’s difficult to keep the thread on neutral grounds.
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999, Spain have over 6 times the number of UEFA B coaches than England does, that’s because their FA doesn’t charge that much that only the few can afford to do it, hence they have a far bigger pond.
I think Mikus has provided the evidence, all the other major 2nd tiers are 90%+ same nation managers, England is less than 50%, thanks Mikus…Pagan
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There may be some future England Managers in the Championship though Pagan Scott Parker, Lee Bowyer, Lee Johnson but again they will need to prove themselves at a higher level before coming into consideration by England.
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