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Mikus-
Neil Lennon was a success at Celtic, so was Brendon Rogers and many others. Ange period is no different to Ole at United when he arrived. When he loses a few games, thats when the real test will be.
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Absolute bollocks about the manager decisions. They brought in LVG, one of the most decorated managers in football, they turfed him and blamed him. Then they turned to Mourinho another modern coaching great, he openly stated what ManU’s problems were and they did nothing about it, letting cancerous players dictate proceedings. They turf him, so what do they do? Bring in Ole who just panders to the players and tells them “it’s ok” and mollycoddles them!
The problem has never been the manager, it has always been the culture since SAF left._____________________________
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I think that’s harsh on Klopp in Germany. If he failed at Mainz why did Dortmund appoint him as their manager? I don’t think they regretted it. As I say Bayern pretty much copied them and took some of their best players.
I’m not saying Ten Hag is a bad manager but I think his more limited experiences are making life more difficult for him at such a big club as Utd and I think he’s partly having to learn on the job which isn’t ideal.
Ange has worked around the world in different cultures and succeeded. Even if the standard wasn’t as high as here, that proves his credentials as a good communicator and man manager. I put wealth of different experiences very highly. And he’s now top of one of the most competitive leagues in the world, after 10 games. He’s clearly got something about him even if they don’t finish there. Anyway, I’ll leave it there.
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Ange has worked around the world in different cultures and succeeded. Even if the standard wasn’t as high as here, that proves his credentials as a good communicator and man manager
He worked mostly in Australia, Mikus. Australia. That, and Japan, for a bit before going to Celtic, another very low standard league. It’s hardly working around the world at any kind of respectable level. Find me anyone who ever said Ange should get a big job before he came to Spurs and I’ll find you a liar. He wasn’t even Spurs first choice. They went through a lot of names before they landed on him. Pure luck that it’s worked out (so far). Celtic were rubbish in the Champions league under him. Even Stevie G looked a world beater in Scotland.
As for Klopp, he nearly relegated Dortmund in a 2 team league. He’s been fantastic at Liverpool but his spell in Germany is very comparable to Ten Hag’s in the Netherlands, much more so than Ange’s in the poor Australian league. It’s also worth pointing out that Klopp had a very highly respected recruitment team. A team who ensured he got the likes of Salah coming in despite him wanting otherwise. Where would Klopp be now without that structure? We’ll never know but I suspect they wouldn’t be as good. You talk about Klopp’s innovation leading to Bayern copying them without mentioning Ten Hag was personally requested by Guardiola to join him at Bayern because he was so impressed by him, later tipping him to take over from him at City.
Absolute bollocks about the manager decisions. They brought in LVG, one of the most decorated managers in football, they turfed him and blamed him. Then they turned to Mourinho another modern coaching great, he openly stated what ManU’s problems were and they did nothing about it, letting cancerous players dictate proceedings. They turf him, so what do they do?
Lvg and Mourinho were both once greats of the game but the emphasis is very much on the past tense. If Utd were so wrong to blame them and we actually let 2 great managers leave, they’d have surely proven that in their next roles, right? Nope. Imagine how bad Mourinho must have made things inside the club for Spurs to sack him right before a final. Lvg? Couldn’t get another club job after Utd. Not a single one of Utd’s post-Ferguson managers has gone on to prove Utd were wrong to let them go. The managers have been poor choices AND the structure is non existent. Both can be true. They’re not mutually exclusive.
Ten Hag likely won’t work out in the long term at Utd. Most managers don’t at the top. If that’s the case, he’s far from blameless but I maintain that he was the best option available to us and one who was definitely worth giving a chance to.
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Too early to say if Ange will be a good appointment being top after 10 games isn’t enough. But what it does look like that Spurs recruited very well this summer. Vicario, van der Ven and Maddison especially have really aettled in quickly. Not exactly superstars, but the right players bought for a system.
Compare that to Utd who brought in Mount when everyone could see he wouldn’t work in a midfield with Fernandes. Onana can be brilliant one moment and terrible the next, he’s the Darwin Nunez of the goalkeeping world! Maybe these players will work out but I feel at Utd there’s little time for a player to adapt.
Who was the last brilliant signing Utd made? Hojlund? Not for me, not yet. Not scored yet in the PL I think?
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I don’t disagree about Utd’s signings Threeps. I think Ten Hag has been given way too much control over transfers. Head coaches in the modern game tend not to get that kind of control. I questioned Mount at the time and I’ve yet to see anything from him to suggest it was money well invested.
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This would have been me if United recruited Ange
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I really do find this Postecoglu hype quite funny. That Spurs have suddenly become an example of how to get it right is laughable. Their managerial appointments have even worse than ours even. Going drastically from one style to another, nowhere near winning anything. All of a sudden the shotgun approach seems to hit the target and after 10 games, they’re suddenly an example to the rest of us. If nothing else, it shows how quickly a club’s fortunes can change.
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Spot on Threeps also about there being little time to adapt. I like what I see in Hojlund so far but I questioned the wisdom of putting so much reliance on a promising 20yr old with little senior support if he didn’t hit the ground running and I’ve seen nothing since to change my mind that it was a wise investment. Still, I don’t think he’s the problem. Just that he’s not the solution either. Not at present anyway.
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Adlab, it’s the same for Spurs so far 6 away 4 at home
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No way should utd sack ten hagg but far to many excuses for him. Bruno as captain is maddness. He’s not a motivator, he’s a constant moan who had downed tools when the going gets tough. Anthony? No words needed there. Last year utd didn’t play out from the back because of de gea now it’s because they have no centre backs? 400 m spent and I’ve no idea what utds style of play is. Let’s see were he is when utd get players back etc. far to early to write him off
Spurs doing really well. Feel good factor at the club but let’s see were they are in a years time. Far to early to get carried away.
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It’s the exact same thing I was saying to you Sean when Klopp was moaning about his defence during that appalling run you had. Klopp had even been there for a good few years by then so it was totally his side. Ten Hag can’t moan about injuries. If he’s chosen to waste all that money on Antony, Mount, Casemiro etc when the playing style is supposedly so reliant on ball playing defenders, he has no excuses at all. Of course he’s going to struggle to build up with Evans and Maguire and Lindelof playing LB but that’s his fault for not identifying that weakness.
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Fully agree with the thinking about Ange, let’s wait till the season is finished.
The one thing he has done is to totally change the style of football from ultra defensive under Jose and Conte, to playing on the front foot for that I’m very grateful. He appointed Sonny as captain and made Romero and Maddison vice captains, the effect on Romero has been excellent, he’s no longer the loose cannon likely to get a yellow card every game, the responsibility suits him.
All the Spurs supporters I know agree the football is good to watch and the feeling around the club is upbeat, still think we will take some hidings, but that’s the price you pay playing that way, no complaints so far and hope we finish in the top 6._____________________________
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But he didn’t play varane and regulion who were fit yday Ed? He said they didn’t onstage cause of tactics?
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Ange deserves credit where it’s due. Son now inter changes or is placed as the main target man when Maddison is on field.
You sign players on the basis of them playing in their natural or best fit positions.
I dont get Mason Mount at United. He just appears to be a spare part because United from the start dont have an identity and a regular style and pattern of play.
I get where Neville comes from raising what may be going on off the field, but it’s on the field that’s what you can control and change.
It’s just a summation of sunshine one week and rain the next. No consistency. ⚽️🕹
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No way was that a pen ydsy. Also Newcastle one Saturday was a dreadful call.
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Just a quick reply on Ange. I’m not suddenly saying he’s the best manager in the world. I was just pointing out that I think he strikes me as being a very good man manager and communicator. I think at a big football club, that attribute is one of the most important you can have.
Yes of course player recruitment is important and as I said, that’s the other half of Utd’s problem. They need to be signing top players close to their peaks and for the now, but obviously also players with the right hunger and desire. But again I think when a club brings in the right manager it helps to sharpen minds off the pitch to get the best players on it. Was it really a coincidence that Liverpool’s transfer strategy suddenly improved when Klopp walked through the door for example?
I don’t doubt Utd’s problems are many but I just think that a big part of it is down to them not acting like a big club and bringing in the managers and players they need to make things happen. You can sort of see this mismatch happening in them wanting to play the long game bringing in young players but then at the same time still bringing in the odd statement signing or big player past their peak because they’ve remembered they’re still a big club.
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No I get what you’re saying Mikus. I just think you’re giving Spurs way too much credit for basically stumbling upon what so far seems to be the right fit. It seems like you’re suggesting Utd should have known they needed someone like Ange. Even Spurs didn’t know Ange would work, hence why he was far down the pecking order there, too. If he was such an obvious choice, I think there would have been a queue for his signature, which there wasn’t.
It’s great with the benefit of hindsight and the benefit of a new manager bounce to say “Utd keep going for the wrong managers. If only they’d gone for Ange”. Nobody could have predicted their good start (and that’s all it is so far). If they could, you can be sure there would have been loads wanting to bring him in. The fact he’s almost 60 and only just coming to prominence tells you everything you need to know about his position in the game. The overhyping of his first 10 games is bizarre in my opinion.
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Alas Ed, most people wouldn’t have turned to someone like Ange, so it maybe was luck that they plumped for him. But that doesn’t mean other more experienced heads wouldn’t have appointed him. As for the overhyping of his first 10 games, I think we should bear in mind that Spurs haven’t had the best of squads and they then lost their talisman in the summer. And Ange has completely changed the way they play and the players have immediately bought into it, which as I say strikes me as him having good managerial qualities. Whilst it would be daft to claim they’ll win the league now, I also can’t see them falling off a cliff. There’ll be bumps in the road no doubt, but I think they’ll still have a good season.
It’s maybe a bit like looking at someone like Guus Hiddink. Its not a perfect analogy but you look at his CV and again he’s well travelled but has generally managed more at country international levels. But imo he’s clearly got good attributes as a manager, particularly man management ones in terms of developing the spirit of a team. Someone like Ancelotti has that in spades.
Ten Hag I’m sure is still a very good coach but I think he perhaps needed a few stepping stone jobs to make him a more rounded manager.
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