15th August 2020 at 9:59 am #151317
Watching the images
Hearing from survivors and absolute heroes. Every single man and woman from all nations. I find this completely emotional. Makes me proud and so sad.
15th August 2020 at 10:01 am #151319
- This topic was modified 1 month ago by nine nine nine.
Spot on Stevo but it’s VJ day.15th August 2020 at 10:21 am #151335
Apologies for that
Frankly watching and listening makes me highly emotional15th August 2020 at 11:11 am #151369
No need to apologise mate very easy to mix the two up.
The soldiers fighting the War in Europe had it really hard but fighting the Japanese and what transpired if you were captured was truly awful.
I’ve changed the thread title for you hope that’s ok.15th August 2020 at 2:30 pm #15149315th August 2020 at 4:22 pm #151583
Fascinating article that challenges the conventional wisdom of the use of the nuclear bomb to bring about Japan’s surrender, and it makes sense what with the surprising swiftness of more cordial relations between the US & Japan in the years ahead – it suited both sides to use it as the reason for surrender, when it was the invasion of the Soviet Union that ultimately left Japan with no option left.
Article below on next post (had trouble posting for some reason):15th August 2020 at 4:26 pm #15158915th August 2020 at 5:20 pm #151632
Terrible way to end WW2 let’s hope the world never sees the like of it again. But so was what was happening in the Pacific.
Loss of face is very important to the Japanese either way they were reluctant parties to surrender because of that the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki left them with no place to go tragically as in all wars it was the Japanese people who took the brunt of ending the war in the Pacific.
The relationship with the US is understandable when Japan got a new constitution, which took effect on May 3, 1947, its terms came largely courtesy of American influence, specifically that of U.S. General Douglas MacArthur and his staff. And the US felt a huge debt to Japan because of those two bombs and we’re dedicated to rebuilding Japan because of that.
Curiously despite all of my years going backwards and forwards to Japan and all the time I’ve spent there over many years I’ve never had a discussion with any of my Japanese friends and colleagues about World War 2 and if it ever somehow came up the shutters definitely came down.
What happened to Hiroshima and Nagasaki was always kept very guarded by the Japanese I knew and worked with I once suggested to a Japanese colleague a visit to Hiroshima that was quickly quashed by him and very little of any detail in respect of World War 2 is taught in Japanese schools15th August 2020 at 5:30 pm #151640
The Russians were a threat for Japan but it was the Americans that worn them down step by step. they wasted valuable time in not agreeing to a surrender months before and were warned what was about to come. It could have saved thousands of japanese life as well At the same time the British with the assistance of Allied troops finally stopped them in there tracks in Burma, because, at last, we had a real General not like the one we had in Singapore when it capitulated. The Americans were always going to get to Japan first15th August 2020 at 5:35 pm #151644
Nine…like you. I have been and worked in Japan many times over the years and WW2 was never a subject of discussion. I always tried to liken the modern generation as to being like two countries being similar because , essentially we were “island” people. This kept the discussion moving in the right direction. there are cultural differences of course15th August 2020 at 7:29 pm #151739
Brian, no doubt, and as the article states, the US had pretty much obliterated most Japanese cities well before the two nuclear bombs. But whilst the debate may rumble on, I don’t think it should be underestimated just how much losing sides fear being convicted of war crimes as well as losing their heritage and way of life generally (it’s also one reason I think why Kim Jong Un clings to power so hard in North Korea). Like Germany, Japan ultimately found itself between the two great powers of the world at that time, and had no where else to go. But I find it compelling that it suited Japan to turn the devastation of the two bombs into victimhood that arguably helped alleviate some of the concerns Japan had above.
Generally speaking, the role of the Soviet Union in the war rarely gets mentioned in the West. But both at Stalingrad, and in the Far East, they played a huge and arguably decisive role. And how did the Soviet Union come to be? Imperial Germany helped Lenin return to Russia in 1917 on the sealed train to basically cause havoc in Russia, who they were at war with. That was a huge moment in history, and the ghastly legacy of the Soviet Union & two world wars is still with us today, and will be for some time yet.15th August 2020 at 8:37 pm #151791
Mikus,5,000 Japanese were found guilty of war crimes, of whom more than 900 were executed.
“On March 10, 1945, U.S. B-29 bombers flew over Tokyo in the dead of night, dumping massive payloads of cluster bombs equipped with a then-recent invention: napalm. A fifth of Tokyo was left a smoldering expanse of charred bodies and rubble.
Today, a modest floral monument in a downtown park honors the spirits of the 105,400 confirmed dead, many interred in common graves.
It was the deadliest conventional air raid ever, worse than Nagasaki and on par with Hiroshima. But the attack, and similar ones that followed in more than 60 other Japanese cities, have received little attention, eclipsed by the atomic bombings and Japan’s postwar rush to rebuild.”
15th August 2020 at 9:06 pm #151823
- This reply was modified 1 month ago by nine nine nine.
Yes, the two bombs did distract from the colossal conventional devastation unleashed by the US in Japan of which I doubt many realise. The point about war crimes was more stressing the Japanese obviously wanted to avoid surrender if they could avoid it, but eventually had no choice. But had the axis forces won, they too would arguably have had grounds to convict for war crimes. Also the way many of the Germanic people in central and Eastern Europe were treated after WW2 is also pretty horrifying in the “flight and expulsion of the Germans” which estimated that 500,000 to 2 million German civilians were killed. Again, I doubt that is known to many.
War may sometimes be necessary, but it is can never be described as good.16th August 2020 at 5:02 pm #152786
Nine/Mikus…your points very true and one action out of this really makes me mad. That is when a war crime is specifically set at a soldier/airman/navy in a civil court The captain of a ship takes responsibility for his crew and that should be the same logic for any Government. i.e. the Government is the captain not the individual My son did tours of Afghan, Iraq and Serbia some horrific frightening stories our troops had to endure with no feeling of support with what goes on in the Courts here
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