7th March 2020 at 12:05 pm #81904
I have some sympathy for Dier. OK, maybe he went a step too far but he did not touch or hurt anyone did he? As to the FA and UEFA they are hypocrites. Fans cannot escape responsibilities in these matters either. The fan behaviour is getting worse and little is done about it, if they all behaved there would be no need for Marshalls or Police on the level and cost we see now I do not accept many fans argument that they pay there money and should be allowed to voice an opinion but when that becomes abusive and inflamotary they do not have the right and need to take some anger lessons. This is a game of football not WW3 and it should be enjoyed. No player or team goes on to the pitch and wants to play badly. A sad reflection on to days football society from top to bottom9th March 2020 at 11:33 am #83442
Interesting interview I watched some time ago with a journalist who wrote on culture, who was asked to cover a ‘friendly’ game between an English team and Roma. Many of the English fans were hurling obscenities at the Italians, and the journalist later asked one of them why they’d come all that way to shout abuse at Italian players and fans, to which the fan replied, “Well, you’ve got to let your hair down haven’t you?” To which journalist replied, but why? To which the fan had no response. And bear in mind this particular fan I think was a computer programmer, not just some drunken lout.
It does seem the idea that behaving badly has been accepted as a good thing, and that perhaps by doing so you’re releasing the tensions in you so you’re just being “true to yourself” as the journalist put it. And that’s I’m afraid is where we’re at. Bad things have come to be seen as good, healthy and even normal things.9th March 2020 at 2:37 pm #83473CriticalmaKParticipant38 pts
Agreed Brian, it’s a bit too much like “the customer is always right”. If you say that any person or group can do no wrong, they will take the piss. I have absolutely no problem with a player jumping into the crowd to protect a family member, or honestly anyone. I haven’t really followed this case, so if there is something else to it then feel free to correct me but in a scenario where it’s as simple as this, so to speak, I’m fine with it.
Footballing bodies tend to get a little precious when it comes to player responsibilities but everyone must be responsible and held accountable for their actions and that includes the scumbag fans who don’t know how to behave. It’s always about how the players are “role models” well, so are all the louts in the stands.
If it really is just as simple as Dier jumping into the crowd cause someone was getting aggressive with his brother (or whoever they were to him) then he should be commended for his character, not condemned because it’s unseemly.9th March 2020 at 3:32 pm #83480
Mikus, I would disagree bad things can never be good but I think one of the key aspects of this is RESPECT, or lack of it Not only do they let themselves, there family and friends but our country as well, so, in my mind, in the case you have cited “true to yourself” shows lack of respect and responsibility. Youngsters who watch such behaviour then think…this is normal and I can do it. Fans need to improve or they will ruin the game because fans that care about the game will stop going. I go to watch a football match with 22 players not to see or hear loutish behaviour. I am no prood but there has to be better behaviour9th March 2020 at 3:41 pm #83481
Mak, that is very true, everyone must be accountable for there actions. I am fortunate enough to have come through an era when fans were great and if I compare to the fans of to day the difference is startling.I wonder sometimes if these irresponsible people are actually interested in the match itself and they go for the conflict. The problem maybe unsolvable now and we will have to live with the consequences. In a funny way, VAR may play a part in defusing some of actions, well, that is when they get it right!!!!9th March 2020 at 3:50 pm #83483PaganParticipant335 pts
During the recent England cricket tour of South Africa Ben Stokes had a few choice words for a fan who passed comment when he was out, a couple of the pundits we’re talking about the incident a few days later and the basic thread of their conversation was, just because you’ve paid a few quid to get in, it doesn’t give you the right to abuse anyone, why can’t you just appreciate and feel privileged that you’re lucky enough to see some of the best players on the planet……Pagan9th March 2020 at 3:54 pm #83485
Brian, you may have somewhat misunderstood me. I’m looking at the deep cultural side of why it’s now happening. Not saying it is good behaviour, but that it comes to be *seen* as a ‘good thing’ to do, to let it all out on the terraces for the reasons given above, and so it becomes acceptable. That’s obviously a bad thing but society has effectively been told it’s the new normal.
As ever, when a taboo is broken or a fence knocked down, people should ask why the fence was put there in the first place, the fence being ‘respect’ in this case.
9th March 2020 at 4:02 pm #83488
- This reply was modified 3 weeks, 4 days ago by Mikus.
Also take this recent clip of Lingard being abused. (Keep the volume low due to expletives if you’re in a public place).
And because he’s paid a lot, some fans see the abuse as justified and so normal (when it obviously should never be!)
— Oliver Kay (@OliverKay) March 6, 2020
9th March 2020 at 5:00 pm #83493PaganParticipant335 pts
- This reply was modified 3 weeks, 4 days ago by Mikus.
From a slightly different angle, and I’m not saying I agree with it, but the lack of respect shown by the spectators possibly mirrors the players lack of respect towards the match officials and the integrity of the game…..Pagan9th March 2020 at 9:34 pm #8351210th March 2020 at 8:29 am #83520nine nine nineModerator878 pts
Despite the odd idiot in the stands players can’t wade in like Dier did it wasn’t a Cantona moment but I do expect the FA to take some action against him he will be a lucky boy if they don’t.10th March 2020 at 9:23 am #83523
999 – so you would just stand by and watch your family from a distance if they were in physical danger?10th March 2020 at 9:35 am #83524steveosnakeeyeParticipant256 pts
how much “danger” were they really in? lets me frank here, if they let this go then it sets a precedent for other players to do the same, it also reflects very badly on the game, the PL and world wide audiences and has much larger impacts than yiu may think, i feel for the guy i get why he did it and would expect a LIGHT punishment due to circumstances, but players have been getting far worse than this for decades and not done what he did….10th March 2020 at 10:16 am #83528
Nine…I think we are well past the stage of “odd idiot” now.10th March 2020 at 12:45 pm #83533
Steveo – how much danger was he in? I have no idea and it likely wasn’t much but I do know if I saw my brother in an altercation I would be over there as quick as I could. I’m not gonna wait and see how it pans out. He deserves punishment but to say he can’t or shouldn’t defend his family because he’s a footballer is a bit narrow minded.10th March 2020 at 1:26 pm #83535nine nine nineModerator878 pts
Brian, from everything I’ve seen and read from the media this was a single abuser of Dier which led Dier’s brother to get involved which culminated with a bit of a face off between the two of them.
Dier on leaving the pitch saw what was happening and chased the abuser down in the stands and the brave abuser ran away.
Blood is thicker than water and it’s not unatural for siblings to run to the aid of each other and I get that but we can’t have players chasing down fans in the Stands and I would be suprised if the FA let it go if only to try and ensure it doesn’t happen again somewhere else.
If they do decide to punish Dier it shouldn’t be too Draconian and I don’t think it will be.Cheers 9’s10th March 2020 at 2:49 pm #83552
Nine…I was referring to the wider situation… The saying…it is the minority wears thin with me because it is stated so many times. many minorities become a majority given time and opportunity. I accept in Dier case it was one guy who provoked him but Paxton has it right. Have they caught this guy yet?10th March 2020 at 2:52 pm #8355310th March 2020 at 2:55 pm #83555steveosnakeeyeParticipant256 pts
Paxton, imm not totally disagreeing with you or unsympathetic to Dier and his family but im pretty sure they have stewards and police at games to deal with this without the pro footballer jumping the stands
we have racism and all kinds of other nasty stuff, again the minority but even one is to much, the clubs could and should do more IMHO10th March 2020 at 3:49 pm #83562
steveo – indeed we do have stewards to deal with these things, but they didn’t. stewards at football matches are pretty useless. it never should have come to this but it did and whilst I think eric dier has no place on a football pitch, that is solely based on his ability and not his behaviour.
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