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Nancy is in goal
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I think if Southgate was going to beat Italy, it was always going to be on penalties because we were never really going to take the game to them in our approach. And the really frustrating thing that’s been overlooked is that Pickford had a very good shoutout and the shootout was there for the taking. But we messed it up bigtime and shot ourselves in the foot mainly because of bringing on two young players who had barely kicked the ball, though I take the point about the stuttering starts – do these players stutter their starts in every practise as well?
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Agree Mikus. Pickford really put himself out. He’s a Hero and wore the 3 Lions badge with Pride. Why we never learned to really do anything about Penalty Takers for now generations is beyond me.
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Harry no worries again apologies. I think I got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning. The falling out was caused by me by being to sensitive
Apologies again mate
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That was some save from Pickford for jorghinos pen mikius mate. He had a great tournament
Maguire aswell. Two players I have given a lot of stick to previously.
That was the lifeline. I just don’t get rashfords angle and run up. He was unlucky
Sanchos and saka pen were to high. I was always thought low and hard. It just gives the keeper to much of a chance
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According to Transfermarkt prior to yesterday Jorginho has scored 29 penalties and missed just 4, Jorginho has got one of the best penalty records in top class football but his penalty was saved last night.
Penalty shoot outs are a lottery whoever takes them.
Personally I would like to see the game played on after extra time with players removed every 5 minutes until a winning goal is scored but that’s unlikely to happen as both UEFA and FIFA favour the theatre that a penalty shoot out provides.
I’m glad Southgate is staying on for the World Cup Finals he serves to lead England into the World Cup Finals where it goes from there who knows up until the World Cup Finals he deserves everyone’s support, he’s done a great job in leading and galvanising the squad and they were all undoubtedly 100% plus behind him.
I hope though when Southgate reviews everything about this tournament he will think carefully about whether he may have been a little too conservative at one nil up and on the wisdom of having three young players taking the first 5 penalties in a penalty shoot out with two of them having just come on with the penalty being almost their first kicks and the wisdom of leaving 19 year old Saka with the responsibility of taking the 5th penalty even if they were the best 5 penalty takers over the last 5 weeks in training.
Of course had England won the penalty shoot out Southgate would have been hailed today as being tactically astute for making the changes when he did and choosing the 5 penalty takers he did in the order he did or indeed for managing to hang on to the original one nil lead had we managed to do that.😊
There’s such a narrow line between success and failure in these things.
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Spot on Lucky any defender of any repute would have pulled Saka back as Chilenni did and the yellow card was spot on it was too far out to be considered a definite goal scoring opportunity.
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Game over, consigned to the history box. There are positives to take from the competition and a few that needs lots of attention. Pickford had a very good final but I would like to see a better keeper for the WC, one that can distribute better. Walker will not be there and maybe Shaw by the time it comes around. Midfield. Maguire and Booth both ready now. Midfield. we do need an experienced general in there. Forward it depends on how they progress or not in the coming season, Doubt Kane will make it though Grealish is a luxury but sometimes you need that but it all depends on the overall tactical game and he is a free spirit, not to everyones liking. I would say more to look forward to than not. Southgate will have learned from this experience but we do need to play without fear in the future, that is how Italy beat us, they appeared confident even after going a goal down so early. I am over it, but we must do something positive about the stupid fans and the FA, again, did not plan enough to avoid such happenings…too busy takeing money elsewhere
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I think if teams can’t win the game in 120 minutes of football, then you deserve the fate of a penalty shootout, which itself can still be managed to some degree and it’s still a test of mental strength. I thought Southgate said something odd before the game in a pre match interview when he said
I think, “I’m done now, it’s over to them. I’ve said my bit.” To which I felt like saying, well you might as well leave the stadium & go home in that case Gareth. Yet after the game, he said “It’s all on me.” There’s consistency for you._____________________________
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Disappointed is the word, not for not winning, but for the way we played. Sitting back and being cautious is one thing, not coming out of your own half is another, it’s not an individual at fault, it’s the teams, by the time Italy scored we’d forgotten how to go forward.
As for the penalties, you don’t expect to save two and still lose, but that’s pressure for you, I see it a lot in cricket where bowlers who go for 5 or 6 an over day in day out fall to pieces when the pressure is on at the end of a game and bowl wides and no balls and get tanked for 20.
Only admiration for anyone to step forward in last night’s situation, let’s hope they can take it in their stride…..Pagan
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Huge pity that some of the focus today is on the racial slurs and the English fans behaviour. It just brings so much Shame to the nation. People smashing their own towns up and fighting with each other.
It’s all over the news here in Ireland. Makes no sense to me but it happens at every tournament. Your in a final and you behave like that.
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Policed very badly. Absolute carnage.
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They’re complete idiots Sean. Violence/trouble within English football in general has come a long way since the 80s but for some reason England games seems to bring out the worst in some. The vast majority of England/English fans are decent people/fans. 50 million aren’t represented by that bunch of idiots.
I refuse to associate myself with those idiots and their actions simply because we happen to have been born on the same island.
The other night we were sat at a bar in Stockholm watching the Quarter final against Denmark. Our English table was right next to a big group of Danes. We were both celebrating our goals wildly and pretty vocal throughout. Whilst we celebrated massively for England’s winning goal, at the end we went over and consoled the Danes and bought them all beers. We spent the rest of the night having a good laugh with them and they wished us luck for the Italy game. I know the vast majority are good people/fans. Unfortunately, the stupid minority give the rest of us a bad rep though, which I know all too well (with living abroad) is hard to shake off.
I think they’ve wrecked the chance of a UK/Ireland joint World Cup bid for 2030, also, sadly.
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Ed, totally agree, but I don’t think it is fair that you have had to explain that.
Simon Jordan was spot on here Ed please give a listen
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I seem to remember a psychologist/journalist who was sent to report on a friendly football match between Italy & England in Rome. When he saw all the chanting of obscenities by the English fans towards the Italian ones, he asked one of the fans why they had travelled all that way to do that. The fan replied “Well, you’ve got to let your hair down.” Whilst such actions are not of the same order as physical violence or storming stadia, they are still rooted in a belief that a lack of self restraint can be healthy and by getting things out your system it can be like an act of cleansing. Now yes, fans around the world can be guilty of these things, but we clearly have a problem. You don’t have to walk far down the streets of this country now before you hear bad language and bars around city centres at night can often see violence. To change things requires a much deeper cultural change than a twitter hashtag.
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Essentially, abhorrent behaviour is taken to a new level and something deep in the mindset of those individuals. Do they really hold fondness and passion for the Sport and the National Team or do they use the tournament to park themselves to set out their vendetta?
A lot are just plain stupid where they might just need to ‘sleep it off’. Others however want a vehicle to be able to exert themselves and let themselves go.
Protesters can be like that. Their feeling of power heightens when they find likeminded individuals who will behave the same. The ‘mess’ that was created and left all over Central London, and it wasn’t a few cans and chip papers; we’re talking criminal damage and carnage.
Our legacy carries on for generations because nothing really has changed; these are now the ‘citizens’ of the ‘children’s children’ who were those 20 year olds in the 90s or even middle age men.
There are solutions out there, but our existing government unfortunately is to soft. How many of those you wonder be punished and brought to justice for the abuse on Twitter?
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There was enough camera evidence to single out theses idiots. I am still surprised that even one of them got anywhere near a door into Wembley. The mess in the squares in London they should be found brought back and made to clean the mess up but our soft system of waker will cut that off. There can be no excuse. Where do these people get the money from? Probably the same people who will go on a march because they are not getting enough dole money
It is sickening and it needs clamping on now_____________________________
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Ed, agree that is tarnishes the quest for 2030. I’ve been to England so many times. I’ve never had one ounce of trouble. I absolutely Liverpool and Manchester. I’ve worked in London. Great cities with great people
I totally agree it’s come along way since the 80s but so disappointing for the good English fans that this keeps popping up
Anyway what a great euros. Great to see crowds back and some brilliant goaks etc.
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I do really hope Southgate learns from this. I saw him make exactly the same mistakes in the last world cup. Kept going a goal up and then backing his players to defend the lead for the rest of the game. The reality is, the longer the tournament goes on the tougher the opposition you play and harder it is to achieve that tactic. In the WC, (I know this will sound biaised) if he wanted to use that tactic properly, he still needed to have an attacking outlet and Kane is not the right man for that. If you are going to invite pressure and territorial possession in your half then it was crying out for balls to be played over the top to keep their defence from pressing too high and Vardy was the perfect candidate for that role. We have enough speedsters in the team now other than Vardy to still do that.
I heard an interesting perspective on the Euros podcast earlier this week from a French commentator. He likened Southgate’s approach very much to Deschamps’ during the WC. He said that Fnrech supporters were really critical of him and his very pragmatic and conservative style and the overwhelming sentiment was that the people wanted them to play more expansively. However, he got them success. The big difference between Southgate and Deschamps though is that once France got the latter stages of the tournament they started to back their own ability and aim to dominate their oppositions. Southgate did not, he kept with the same formula.
As I say, Southgate has done this in two successive tournaments now and it’s fair to say that his approach is good enough to get you to the latter stages of a major tournament but not enough to win it. Can he be more positive next time around? I assume no one is just happy to make semis and finals? We want to win stuff, right? If so we have to take gambles and back ourselves at some point_____________________________
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Foxy, I would say based on what unraveled and what we experienced, that would be my only criticism on Southgate and just to be able to inject more emotion and good feeling into the team.
We were in a great position with the early goal. Why not be more attack-minded, be brave and take a risk?
A couple of us on here mentioned and effectively predicted what can happen if you maintain a conservative approach and this to you invite pressure and the Italians will and did have a right go at us in the second half and were rewarded.
Go for the second goal, then maybe sit back and focus on ball retention. I definitely agree re Vardy. Unfortunately, he’s in retirement. We need either somebody experienced or somebody new that can be nurtured but is a prolific machine aside Kane.
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