2nd October 2019 at 10:33 pm #49132
Threeps, for the record I’ve been concerned about the midfield for some time. It’s what prevented us beating City last season, and is what will prevent us beating them again this season if we don’t improve. Guardiola & City have raised the bar, we have to deal with that.2nd October 2019 at 10:37 pm #49133
“Mak, that’s what I’m alluding too when I mention the point of buying 2 New Players.”
I get you I guess. I didn’t entirely agree as Hendo had been on the up and Wijnaldum , well, I’ve no major complaints about him but I’m not dishing out the credit that I used to. He was playing to such a high standard before and although he’s pulling his own weight generally, he can do better. It’s Henderson who I think we’ve got to improve upon now. I see his value to a point but I think there is some misguided sentimentality from the majority of fans. As a Liverpool fan. you can’t criticize Hendo without being shouted down by the mob. I think on here we are way ahead of the curve in terms of emotional detachment but even on here, I know I’ve to be careful when i say this kinda thing but… you guys know me by now, I’ll voice unpopular opinions.
If we’re to move forward as a club, we’ve got to sign a top quality replacement for Hendo, or others whoa re also vying for that place. There are a few and I am not even ruling out Wijnaldum’s place from this also. At least 1 top transfer though. Sentiment will lose you trophies.
As for Gomez being terrible tonight. He’s had almost no game time this season. He’s also unhappy at the club as a result. Matip has been one of our best players so far but Gomez has the potential to be just as good and was last season at the same stages. Let’s not forget that.2nd October 2019 at 10:38 pm #49134
“Whenever we have or nearly have a bad result everyone jumps on the “we need new players” bandwagon. That midfield did bloody brilliant last season and has won every premiership game thus far. Let’s put things into perspective eh?”
I’ve watched every minute we’ve played this season, so what perspective do you think I’m putting this in exactly?2nd October 2019 at 10:43 pm #49135
Mikus maybe it was that midfield that kept us fighting for the title and winning the Champions League?
Mak, dont really get your point. You watched every minute? Good for you. Doesn’t mean you are immune to over-reacting.2nd October 2019 at 10:45 pm #49136
It’s all about led and steam for the course of 60 games and our involvement in 4+ competitions.
Maybe or likely, we could be out of the FA Cup and League Cup. The CL and PL aside of the fringe occasions like the World Club Tournament is an instruction given by John Henry FSG to emphasize on and try and win (or grow as further).
From their point of view, they see Pound Signs. For that to be achieve, you have to have a well-rounded squad depth.
Like a few on here have pointed out, that’s ultimately what got Manchester City over the line despite Liverpool pushing them all the way with a shortage of just 1 point.2nd October 2019 at 10:45 pm #49137
Good for me? saucy pup. see lads. you cant criticize certain players.
2nd October 2019 at 10:48 pm #49139
- This reply was modified 2 weeks, 1 day ago by Makaveli.
Threeps, I’m afraid in this era where Guardiola has effectively reached footballing perfection with regards to his philosophy, we have to deal with that. Any other era, we’d all be out toasting how great we are – and rightly so. But the bar is where the bar now is. And “kept fighting” for the league, as impressive and admirable as it is, ain’t the same as winning the league.2nd October 2019 at 10:51 pm #49140
Mikus, Man Citys rule demands perfection in order to beat them. It’s only correct that you should look to the strengthens and weaknesses of your first 11. Who’s the weakest player in our first 11 now? This season so far, it is Henderson. That’s why watching every minute is “good for me”, as Threeps put it.2nd October 2019 at 10:59 pm #49141
Mikus, that’s the ultimate underlying feeling.
A fair few near misses for Liverpool over the course of time as far as the League Championship goes and of course, not winning it since 1990.
Last season was the closest and putting it into context from our POV, freakish.
And agreed on the point of Pep. He is relentless like the T1000 (Terminator 2 Analogy) as to us guys being slightly tender.2nd October 2019 at 11:05 pm #49142
Being candidly open about this, in my mind as far as this season’s title race goes, I believe the head-to-head meetings with Man City will determine where the league goes be it, points and psychology.
We can go on about the Everton and Manchester United draws, plus the blip in January to Leicester, but Pep was stringent at Anfield and credit to him. Plus, he won on his own Home Soil.
It does factor in we can’t be dismissive.
We have grown though in our ability to be conservative. Like Napoli a couple of weeks ago, we fell asleep just that tad bit early.
2nd October 2019 at 11:08 pm #49144
- This reply was modified 2 weeks, 1 day ago by newbalance.
I don’t rate our team based solely on what they win. They are gre4at markers for points in your progression and are obviously very handy in that they create snapshot memories. Ultimately though, I track the teams progression. There have been seasons where we’ve won nothing and I’ve been happy and other times where I’ve not been happy and we’ve won something. Rodgers season is for point 1 and Kenny’s season is for point 2.
Threeps, you undermine my position by suggesting that what I’ve said is flippant. I’ve held this position bar for a few months int he middle where hendo was playing to an extremely high level. The amusing thing about this is that you or your kind haven’t accused me of flipping or of being partial to over-reacting when it suited your agenda.
When Hendo started performing, where were these kind words?
I’d suggest that in future you not be offended by another’s opinion and try to have an actual discussion instead of writing them off, as I knew somebody would. If I dared to venture onto TT for this, I’d have gotten a wave of arrested developmental outrage. I’d like to think that is this the forum where you try and change my mind.
But you just write me off.2nd October 2019 at 11:35 pm #49145
Mak, as I said on a TT thread about Henderson some months ago, I think a lot of managers, particularly foreign ones, like having this extra and tactical player in the midfield. The Busquets player if you like. A player in the middle to keep it rolling over and keep possession which also makes the midfield quite packed – it’s something Lampard alluded to when asked why himself and Gerrard failed in the middle for England. Because teams like Spain had more midfielders and easily dominated England. And indeed Fergie evolved his game to use Carrick for a similar role. And in some ways Scholes was similar. And many foreign players simply could not believe it when England basically pushed Scholes out to the left and snubbed Carrick completely. So on the surface, there’s a cultural problem perhaps here with warming to these kinds of players. But why did Carrick and Scholes, not get the same criticism as Henderson? Well, Scholes had many other attributes with his passing and goals as we all know. And I think with Carrick, he simply had more creative midfielders around him that helped take care of the more creative side. We don’t. So I think that’s partly why Henderson gets more criticism, though some of it is justified, and Matip almost showed him up at the weekend with the effective forward passes he made whilst Henderson was pointing to play it safe.2nd October 2019 at 11:55 pm #49150
Oz YobParticipant35 pts
I don’t get to watch games so I Quickly jumped on to see what happened & whilst we got up it seems we didn’t play well, is that how it went? It seems from what I’m reading we have a couple of problems that have been exposed in the last few games & we are winning ugly so to speak.
This is looking very similar to last season. Out of the blocks quickly, win ugly a few times & look like we finally have some steel, have a few off games during/after the busy Xmas/January period & drop some points & eventually the relentless city overtake us.
As for Hendo & our midfield, he’s improved & we probably have the most depth there but it’s not quality, we are pretty much same same with our midfield players. (Fabinho is one of the best at his job though, I’m with Sean that one). Against the vast majority we could probably get away with it but city are just better than the majority & as Ive said the last couple of seasons their quality in depth is why they will win the EPL again.
It’s not just the EPL that’s becoming predictable, New England patriots will win the NFL, New Zealand will win the Rugby Union, barca or real will win their comp, juve will win, Celtic win win theirs, roosters will win Oz rugby league, canterbury crusaders will win the club rugby union in Oz & NZ, it goes on & on & is why I watch F all sport any more.
Take care all, talk soon3rd October 2019 at 12:25 am #49151
Mikus, the game has changed a lot over time. I don’t have much of an opinion on Scholes but he is considered to be one of Utds greatest ever players. A team that won countless PL titles. Carrick on the other hand was a distinctly average player and that’s where I stop talking about him.
As for the suggestion that the others around him aren’t good enough, so he doesn’t look good. That’s an argument that would fall flat on it’s face for literally any other player in the team. It’s not just about creativity. He’s been poor in general. He’s lost the ball in dangerous situations an alarming amount of times.
There’s a marked difference between the responses of individuals on on here. Recently I criticized another favourite player of mine (Fabinho) and was told about why he’s so good. See, it’s not hard to say why a player is performing well. I was nit-picking on a few mistakes he made, whilst acknowledging that he was playing well in general. There was no “good for you” petulance from Sean and someone else (I forget who sorry) in their rebuttal. They stated their position on it and left it at that.
Hendo had true value last season. He was genuinely dynamic. He’s not been like this at all this season and I think we’ve played enough matches now to come to a solid conclusion that it’s not good enough. The season isn’t 8 minutes young. This is a large enough sample set to determine someones input, especially on the back of some extremely close results.
It is time to replace Hendo . If this upsets you and you feel the need to lash out then too bad. This is a forum for stronger willed people who can at least partially tolerate another’s opinion, even if that means that at first you must break that opinion down in a long discussion (yay forums).
EDIT : in case it isnt clear, Im not talking about you for some of this, Mikus 😛 I’m talking in response to threeps and any other Hendo purists.
3rd October 2019 at 12:49 am #49153
- This reply was modified 2 weeks, 1 day ago by Makaveli.
Oh I’m pretty much with you on Henderson Mak, I was looking at it more to explain why I think Klopp has used him so much and why I think he’s been criticised more than the other players I mentioned, though he can be useful in high press games. In some ways you saw the best and worst of him tonight. He looked quite good in parts of the first half with his passing because he had more space in midfield. But second half was dire – he was the complete opposite of his supposedly steady solid performances in midfield – giving it away and running like a headless chicken but unable to win it back, so much so that Klopp had to bring him off.
Thought Roy Keane was very good the other night in terms of what should generally be expected from a midfielder, if you didn’t see it:
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