Home Community Liverpool Are we falling short?

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  • #5007
    Nike19
    Participant

      I didn’t watch the game at all tonight purely out of choice, though you can’t help but eventually succumb. Leading 2-1 only to be held to a draw, against what other Prem teams have achieved, one can’t help but feel left behind.

      On return of a competition, you want to get off to a good start and especially after Saturday’s humiliation, just needed a lift.

      The 2-2 draw is just disappointing. We’re just selling ourselves short because of the lack of defenders from now until the next Window.

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      #5017
      Anonymous

        i hate to say it but liverpool’s biggest problem right now, is Klopp. He’s got you playing great stuff but appears to have this reluctance to improve the defence. the whole world knows liverpool need to improve their defence. klopp is clearly also aware of it given he was chasing VVD. FSG cant be blamed because they put the money forward and it was Klopp that ruined the deal by getting caught. why he thinks VVD is the only defender in world football that can improve liverpools awful defence is beyond me. once the deal was dead why did they not source other targets? Spurs and chelsea had the best defences in the league last season and still both went and spent a lot of money improving. Klopp has this arrogance about him that is holding liverpool back. how you have gone in to this season with a choice of mignolet or karius in goal and having to choose between lovren and klavan in the middle with an average matip and having moreno starting is just so difficult to comprehend. if you believe the media, he is supposed to be Klopp, God of football, son of Odin who can do absolutely nothing wrong, but he just cant seem to see the most obvious of weaknesses.

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        #5024
        Oz Yob
        Participant

          Absolutely Klopp is a big factor. No defensive mid to cover a shocking D & no out & out striker. I get we expect goals from midfield but we need 10 chances before we get a goal the way it is. Teams are figuring us out & we have no plan B. Klopp seems to think we can press teams into error & the attack will take it from there but we can’t convert many chances whilst the back is being exposed all the time. No disrespect intended but if Watford bang 3 past you your doing something wrong. We will concede around 50 yet again & with teams figuring out how to hurt us we can’t expect to just out score everyone like we do, we need a plan B. We have no spine & Henderson as a captain is embarrassing, he has zero qualities of a good captain.
          Klopp is a very good manager but he needs to adapt to the rigours of the EPL & be able to change his ways where required if LFC is to become one of the big boys again.

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          #5025
          nine nine nine
          Moderator

            Just my opinion as a neutral.

            Liverpool’s problems are four fold one is Klopp’s philosophy he is an attack biased Coach and his mantra is we will score more goals than you which is a big task if you potentially concede two goals a game.

            Klopp also seemingly lacks the ability to organise his team defensively he has neither got or bought the right players to right the weaknesses that exist defensively.

            At Goalkeeper it’s Mignolet or Karius neither are really good enough imo and he can’t make his mind up, Lovren and Matip aren’t consistent enough and are error prone , Moreno is great going forwards but totally flawed defensively and none of the other defensive players are sound enough defendively.

            Add to that the lack of a quality defensive midfielder to protect the back four at least until next season when Keita arrives and these problems are likely to continue and worryingly for Liverpool fans Klopp is in his third season now without solving them.

            On the front foot though Liverpool are capable of dominating and beating anyone which must make all of the above even more frustrating for Liverpool fans.

            Hopefully Klopp will continue to search for the solutions because should be add a solid defence to his current attack perhaps with a goalscoring striker we could all well be chasing their tails.?

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            #5028
            Anonymous

              999 – you say the issues are four fold but whose fault is it these issues havent been resolved? klopp has known for a long time his keepers and defence are shit. he’s had plenty of time to address it and hasnt. i appreciate his preference of attack over defence but he completely ignores the defensive side and that is ultimately liverpools biggest problem and will stop them progressing.

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              #5029
              Mikus LFC
              Participant

                Paxton, not sure whether it’s arrogance or naivety.

                I think the recent window just gone showed a huge lack of leadership from both owner and manager, but particularly manager. I don’t think there was a strong enough plan to do what we needed to do over summer, not just over the areas of particular weakness, but also over Coutinho.

                I think Klopp is a passionate good coach in the dressing room, but when it comes to more business matters, I think he’s more ‘laissez faire’ and too easy going. In some ways, I think his positivity sometimes gets the better of him. When we didn’t sign the players he wanted, it appears he just shrugged his shoulders and got on with it, only trying to look at the positives as opposed to the negatives. Admirable one might say. But you have to be ruthless in this game, and I think he should have stood up a lot more for what he wanted (assuming he didn’t).

                Take Coutinho. It was rumoured that Klopp actually would have accepted his departure but it was the owners who, still aggrieved over Barcelona’s handling of Suarez, put their foot down and said “never again!”. Now if that was the case, I think Klopp should have had more conviction over what he wanted, and put it to the owners in the strongest possible terms. I’m not going to absolutely lay into FSG over this – they are clearly inexperienced with the European game. Hence even more need for Klopp to tell them how it is. Either way, whatever did happen behind closed doors, we were left with a far from ideal situation – over Coutinho, VVD, and a shortage of players in other key areas. People might say it’s good we’ve still got Coutinho – but I still think all we’ve done, like Saints have over VVD, is delay the inevitable somewhat. And even if not, it will take some time for those players to pick up the pieces from where they left off. I think there’s an element of both clubs cutting off their nose to spite their face and it was completely unnecessary. And as for other players that we needed, Klopp again should have demanded more options from the club – but instead we get this – “it’s all about coaching what we have now and developing the togetherness”. This is all no doubt important, but it’s all a bit too idealistic for me, and it could actually lead to putting a lot more pressure on Klopp than he needed. Now I’m by no means saying we’ll have a disastrous season, but it could put increased pressure on Klopp, pressure he could well do without. In short, should Klopp have been more ruthless here? Is he too “nice”??

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                #5030
                FergieTime
                Participant

                  Carragher made a point a while back. Is Klopp tactics the issues or the players. He point out that even with VVD, the same mistakes will materialise. All he is going to do is replace someone’s position and cover the same area as the player he is replacing, especially with set pieces and opposition will have the same opportunity. I believe it is more tactical and training, than the players.

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                  #5033
                  nine nine nine
                  Moderator

                    Paxton, completely agree with you mate and if Klopp doesn’t begin to turn these defensive issues around shortly remembering this is effectively his third season he may well come under pressure from the owners.

                    Fergie time also makes a good point above re Carragher’s views too and I think he’s right it’s probably not going to be solved just by signing the likes of Van Dijk it’s also about tactics and training

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                    #5034
                    Nike19
                    Participant

                      Genuinely thankful for the replies, thank you. It hurt to see others winning and we being pegged back. I just knew in the back of my mind (even though I don’t want to be thinking like this).

                      I can’t see myself being overly enthusiastic or excited certainly as far as the group stages go to be watching games on tv.

                      Paxton, on your first reply I fully agree. The defence is the structure, it’s like the legs that support the table. The transfer window activity have been excused as reasoning for not being able to bring in new defenders, but in the entire squad I think we have only half a dozen and players like Jon Flanagan are not even being considered.

                      What on earth is going through Jurgen Klopp’s mind to be even considering Raglan Klavan? We adding strength to the depth of the squad but too much in one area and not in the other and it’s very much now reached the point of suicidal as the Watford game vividly illustrated.

                      Going forward from now as people on here have quite rightly pointed out, it’s now a matter of what we do with the deck of cards we have and how we used them tactically on the pitch.

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                      #5039
                      Big Jim
                      Participant

                        I wasn’t too impressed with his reaction and words after Mane’s challenge on Ederson, but that aside I Quite like Klopp. However it would seem to me that he gets a bit of an easy ride from the media, much more so than Guardiola gets. This is no doubt down to the large fan base Liverpool have, the large number of ex Liverpool players that are now pundits and the influence both of these have on the media in the UK. We also saw this with Rogers and Liverpool’s title challenge in 2014, there was palpable disappointment in large parts of the media that Liverpool didn’t win the PL that year. Which completely overlooked the fact that City scored more goals, won more games and had a much better goal difference while playing equally exciting football under Pellergrini in his first season. Cheers Jim

                        • This reply was modified 6 years, 5 months ago by Big Jim.

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                        #5042
                        Editor
                        Keymaster

                          Surely this is not really happening is it?

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                          #5044
                          Nike19
                          Participant

                            I wonder if an Everton fan has designed that Ed, hahaha.

                            We have deep rooted problems in the highlighted areas that’s no hiding, but this is a little on the extreme side and I personally don’t want Jurgen dismissed. Though he would need to have an intention to address the defence good and proper.

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                            #5047
                            nine nine nine
                            Moderator

                              Klopp’s a likeable guy whose sides play exciting football.

                              The vast majority of Liverpool fans remain behind him and preparing banners for fly pasts seems a bit previous, he does though seem to have a bit of a blind spot towards the art of defending which has been a Liverpool problem that pre dates even Klopp.

                              Question marks remain over both Keepers and playing them alternatively and in different competitions isn’t helping an already fragile defence equally despite now being in to his third season he’s spent virtually nothing on a defence that needed strengthening all the way back to Rodgers adding at the same time players like Oxlade Chamberlain for £35m whose at best a squad player in an already well covered Liverpool midfield.

                              Klopp will need to buy himself out of this defensive problem and VVD is not a magic sticking plaster as it will also require further areas to be strengthened some adjustment in tactics and better defensive Coaching if Klopp can’t deliver all of the above as exciting as it is to watch his teams play at times it won’t be he banners flying above his head he needs to worry about it will more likely be the owners behind his back.

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                              #5048
                              Nike19
                              Participant

                                999, that is actually a sound point about the mention of the owners. They have been with the club a good 7 years and from the investment brought in along with growth in so many areas off the pitch, they are in a greater position to now focus more attention on it.

                                1 trophy in the last 12 years for one of the most successful of clubs is poor if we look at it from a greater picture. Chelsea in that sort of period have achieved something like 14 and 2 of the recent cup finals including the Europa Liverpool have been involved ended as second best.

                                I would like to allow Jurgen more time and don’t want to fall into this pattern of changing Managers, but I wonder from an ownership point of view, plus supporters in general how much patience they themselves would allow.

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                                #5049
                                Hightown hope
                                Moderator

                                  I’m not having that banner! That is either a mischievous Everton or Manu fan doing that. I have not heard of one single Liverpool fan who wants Klopp out. We;re unhappy with aspects of the team without a doubt, we’re unhappy with aspects of our transfer dealings over the summer, I was very unhappy with Klopp’s substitutions on wednesday, but do I, or any of the other Liverpool fans I know want him out? Of course, we don’t

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                                  #5051
                                  Hightown hope
                                  Moderator

                                    Big Jim – hi mate. Just seen your comment from yesterday at 6.45pm regarding the media wanting Liverpool to win the league over City a couple of years ago.. Much of what you say is true, but I think the reason for the media bias, and I’m not denying there was some, was more to do with the media wanting a new name on the trophy (ie someone other than Manu, City and Chelsea), and the fact that Liverpool were not one of the mega wealthy clubs, and the fact that we had a British manager, and crucially Steven Gerrard who if he had won the league that year would have given the Press plenty to write about with their ‘local boy wins league’ stories.

                                    It was just the same 2 years ago when Leicester won the league. Spurs played the best football etc etc , but the media and most of the country wanted Leicester to win because they were the underdogs. That’s my reading of what you are talking about, notwithstanding the ex-Liverpool players in the media.

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                                    #5053
                                    nine nine nine
                                    Moderator

                                      nb, I can’t think that too many Liverpool fans support that banner whoever is responsible for it and I seriously doubt it will ever fly nor should it imho.

                                      But I would be surprised if the owners aren’t asking the same questions of Klopp as Hightown poses above as well as some of those posed on this thread too and that Klopp will need to come up with some answers in terms of actions in the medium to long term otherwise his position could be in jeopardy which would be a shame because he’s added a lot of colour to the PL and with a bit of fine tuning Liverpool aren’t that far away from being genuine title challengers.

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                                      #5055
                                      Editor
                                      Keymaster

                                        Hightown, I think you’re right re the banner. My first thought was that it must be a windup. In the unlikely event that it is true, it would be silly anyway as it is clearly not representative of any reasonable amount of the supporters’ views.

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                                        #5057
                                        sean the sailor
                                        Participant

                                          I dint get this to be honest. Falling short? We qualified for the cl in effectively klopps 1st full season and his first window. What do people expect?

                                          No one gave us a chance of top 4 last season. We are professing. We have lost one game this season. A game we were in until the sending off. City are a top top side and they will hammer a lot of teams this season. We all know our problems and that is down to klopp. He chairs the back 4 to much. We try to play like spurs. A high line but the players just don’t know how to play it.spurs play it to perfection. None of the back 4 are in sync. Lovren either Steps forward or back. The full backs are always looking to go forward. Cities first goal shows our failings.

                                          I’m surprised klopp hasn’t been sent to the stands yet. He does be going mad and running a muck at officials. He needs to relax.

                                          As for the plane and asking for klopp to go, it’s just embrassing. We need stability. We can keep changing managers. Even if we finish outside the top 4 he shoukd stay. No way shoukd we be competing with Utd, city or Chelsea. We certainly won’t win the league.

                                          You would swear we had lost all our hands this season. We are were we shoukd be. Ridiculous talk. We have certainly professed since klopp game.

                                          It’s all about cementing a place in the top 4 and a domestic trophy. Liverpool fans need to be patient and get behind the team and manager. I love watching us even if our defending is annoying. We kept 4 clean sheets in a row at the end of last season when we were really in trouble of drilling out of the top 4. Lots of positives for Liverpool fans. Anyone expecting a league challenge is not being realistic.

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                                          #5061
                                          nine nine nine
                                          Moderator

                                            Sean, but if Liverpool had the right personell defensively and we’re Coached better defensively they would be genuine title contenders.

                                            These defensive frailties go all the way back to Rodgers and Klopp is effectively in his third season at Liverpool and hasn’t addressed it at all and there was significant money to spend this summer as the £35m spent on Oxlade Chamberlain and the circa £70m bid for Lemar demonstrates.

                                            If Klopp addresses the defensive issues Liverpool will be competing with Utd, City and Chelsea.

                                            You’re right when their in the ascendancy attack wise Liverpool are great to watch but outscoring the opposition if you concede 2 or 3 doesn’t work all the time and if Klopp continues to fail to address it , it may not just be the media and fan forums that start to question him.

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