Home Community General Football Weekend Football – Gameweek 34

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  • #178542
    PaganPagan
    Participant

    Ed, I don’t think Brian was saying someone won’t buy a club because it has a small proportion of idiotic fans, he was saying someone won’t stump up a couple of billion pounds to have less than 50% of it, in essence no control for a massive outlay.

    If you were only interested in the team you support and it was one of the big 6, then the ESL is a brilliant idea, what the owners failed to take into account is that football fans are fans of football first and a club second……Pagan

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    • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by PaganPagan.
    #178544
    Chucky McChuckfaceChucky McChuckface
    Participant

    That Bale, eh? What a player! 🙂

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    #178545
    Editor
    Keymaster

    Gjblues, I don’t disagree with that. Though it’s worth remembering that this was after we won 3 titles in a row

    There’s only so much you can do though. At the end of the day, you have to, at times, grudgingly accept there is little you can do. I’m sure Cityfans aren’t overly keen on their owners’ involvement in an extremely questionable regime in their homeland. A regime which punishes homosexuality with murder. However, they also do tons of good stuff in the community over here and in the club so it’s understandable a lot of that is swept under the carpet. Not having a go. I’d likely do the same.

    The ESL has definitely been a catalyst though to reigniting those fires. I mean some went and formed their own club. People all have different levels of tolerance. Are we all consistent all the time? Of course not. We’re all hypocrites. We’re all the first to have a go at opposition players for diving but defend our own for doing the same.

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    #178546
    Editor
    Keymaster

    Pagan,I was referring to this comment from Brian which I interpreted as “who would buy a club with fans like this?”. Maybe I misunderstood though

    Idiots will kill football, Who would want to buy Utd debt and fans like this, yes, it is a warning signal…..but for who?

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    #178547
    Mikus
    Participant

    Gj, this is the problem. The owners have the fans over a barrel because to protest the owners effectively would also require them to withdraw support of the team and the club over a longer period of time. It may seem satisfying they’ve disrupted this weekend’s game but unless they do this for the weeks and months ahead, nothing will change and things will get back to normal. And fans obviously don’t want to harm the club. One can still sympathise with them, but what can actually be done in practical real terms is very limited. We all know football clubs grew out of the local communities and should still ultimately serve them. But what’s exacerbated the problem in the premier league era is that it’s almost become dog eat dog and tribal loyalties take over and it becomes a win at all costs mentality. When Leeds sunk down the league after their crisis did other fans sympathise with them? Did other fans sympathise with Liverpool when they hit big financial troubles some years ago? No, because tribal loyalties mean too much to fans and if it’s to the benefit of them in terms of less competition, then why sympathise with them?

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    #178548
    Editor
    Keymaster

    That’s exactly it, Mikus. Do I hate the Glazers and their ownership and the debt? Absolutely. Do I support the (non-violent) protests? Absolutely. Will I stop watching the games or supporting the club over a long period? No of course not. My love for the club is more than my hate for the owners.

    If that makes me a hypocrite then, frankly, I’m fine with that. I’m also fully aware that this kind of attitude makes the protests somewhat pointless but I’m not sure just standing by and accepting it is acceptable either.

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    #178549
    Chucky McChuckfaceChucky McChuckface
    Participant

    But that Bale, what a hat-trick! 🙂

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    #178550
    Editor
    Keymaster

    Was there a game yesterday Chucky? 😂

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    #178551
    Chucky McChuckfaceChucky McChuckface
    Participant

    Funnily enough, there was! Super performance from that Gareth lad, not a bad little player. Silly hair-cut mind you… 🙂

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    #178552
    Editor
    Keymaster

    Bit annoying for Spurs that Bale only just decided to remember he can actually play football though, Chucky. He’s off back to Madrid soon isn’t he?

    Sure I read somewhere that he fully intends to see out his final year there. I’ve very little respect for Bale. He’s only come to Spurs to get fit for the Euros. Shown no willingness to move to play football despite not being wanted at Madrid and seems determined to see out his final year there too.

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    #178553
    Chucky McChuckfaceChucky McChuckface
    Participant

    To be vaguely fair to the lad, what he said was he was legally obligated to go back as nothing else has been agreed between Madrid and whoever… I think Spuds do have an “option” for another year, but who really knows, right?

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    #178554
    gjblues
    Participant

    Ed, I wasn’t suggesting anyone’s love for their club should just cease, and yes, everyone (and their tolerance levels) are different. I was making a point that all supporters, if they are so opposed to the Glazers should do something, in whatever small way, that would hit the owners pocket.
    Personally, if they owned my club, I probably wouldn’t stop going to support the team but I certainly wouldn’t buy any merchandise or subscribe to any club TV channels. But like you said, everyone is different.

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    #178555
    Editor
    Keymaster

    Fair enough Chucky. I wasn’t aware of the option of another year. Certainly worth exploring if so.

    GJ, indeed. It’s a difficult one. Completely understand your point.

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    #178556
    nine nine nine
    Moderator

    Putting aside the rights and wrongs of yesterday and there was a bit of both the United fans want the Glazers out of their Club which the Glazers allegedly value at £4billion.

    The alternatives seemingly are:

    1) The Glazers agree to sell although so far there’s no indication they’ve got any intention of doing that but let’s just say they agree to sell who is in a position to fund such a purchase and would they be any better than the Glazers and it might be a case of careful what you wish for think Hicks and Gillet and Mike Ashley and what the United fans get could be no better than what they already have and in fact it could be worse.

    2) The Glazers let the fans in and give them 50+1% of the Club but why would they do that and can the fans find the £2 billion plus that they would need to make that happen and I can’t see the Glazers handing over 51% of a £4billion asset for nothing and would the Glazers really want to hand control of a £4 billion asset to the fans unlikely at best I would say.

    3) The fans ask for and get representation on the United Board the Chairman of MUST seems like a sensible fella who would do a good job in that direction but would having someone like him on the Board really make that much difference SAF for instance was a Board member and would always do the right thing by United but he didn’t even know about the proposed ESL move.

    I get why the United fans want what they want but it’s going to be very difficult to achieve maybe impossible and they are not going to help the Club or themselves if they continue with days like yesterday again.

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    #178557
    Brian blue
    Participant

    g.i blues…that is the best way. If you are not selling the merchandise or buying the tickets it will have an effect on the balance sheet…where it does hurt. I also believe there is more to this than we know and some f the remarks from the pundits are not helpful. The situation need to calm down. It is known that tribalism exist in many clubs by those that have no interest in the club and or reasons why any protest is made. It is OK to have an organised peaceful demo but if it gets out of control the organisers are responsible because they should have marshalled the event. You cannot have it both ways. The Police are on a hideing to nothing but they too need to be more decisive and stop any potential trouble earlier. They actually let the crowds build to the scenario that happened instead of earlier action in my opinion. I still come back to my earlier point and I have been a football fan for many years…when has football club been more important than responsibilities itself and do not forget, there are millions of ordinary people out there who have no interest in football, they must be thinking “madnesss”. Fans are not going to get what they want 50+1, what they do want is somebody else to invest more than anybody else, but they call the “shots”. That is not going to happen
    I am no way saying Glazier is good for Utd but nobody beat his offer, which Utd accepted. He will sell, in his time frame, Utd fans have to wait for that day

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    #178559
    Chucky McChuckfaceChucky McChuckface
    Participant

    Absolutely, Sweedy, the cyber fish-wrappings say it’s all in place is Spuds want to “tick” the box, and he looks pretty decent when he actually gets a run of games.

    I’m hoping him, Sonny & Kane are all thinking “let’s have one more crack at it, in front of the fans for a full season, let’s see what we can do”…

    I mean, when you consider that we’ve “dropped” 20 points this season, we would actually be 2nd in the table, 4 points behind Moneybags and 9 points in front of your mob… I can’t help wonder how much of that was down to Maureen’s “sit-back” approach. Get somebody a bit more “attack” minded and a decent RB and CB, keep all our “1st” eleven, and let’s see what happens!

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    #178560
    Editor
    Keymaster

    I get why the United fans want what they want but it’s going to be very difficult to achieve maybe impossible and they are not going to help the Club or themselves if they continue with days like yesterday again.

    It’s important to remember Nine that there was a very respectable non-violent protest going on away from that minority of idiots. We mustn’t let that overshadow the whole thing. The idiots should be given lifetime bans and be dealt with by the police. Very important though to not just lump them all in to one group, despite the media’s best efforts. The non-violent protesters are well within their rights to protest.

    Just because something appears difficult to achieve shouldn’t mean you should just give up. They’ve sat around much quieter than this for 16 years. Much more peaceful protests have gone on through the years, all the while the Glazers continued to allow the debt to grow as well as millions going to the Glazers and to paying to service the debt.

    As for the solution, who knows. Of course, we could end up with someone as bad or worse than the Glazers but that’s like saying you should stay in a destructive marriage because, well, the next partner might just be as bad! Whether it achieves anything or not, fans should be allowed to protest in an attempt to achieve change. (Goes without saying that I am talking about the non-violent protesters)

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    #178561
    PaganPagan
    Participant

    Ed, so what you are saying is only very rich people that can afford to buy a club for cash can buy a football club. Let’s be honest all they’ve done is take a mortgage out to buy it, and it’s only like buying a second house to rent out where the rent covers the repayments and running costs and gives you a bit of profit……Pagan

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    #178562
    Editor
    Keymaster

    Pagan, the club have lost around £2billion to interest payments, dividends, directors fees etc. The owners are the only owners to pay themselves dividends. The club is almost £500mil in debt a whole 16 years after a leveraged buyout. Ask yourself, would you want them owning your club? Unless the answer is a resounding yes, how can anyone not understand the frustrations of the Utd fans?

    They’ve also barely set foot in Old Trafford. Don’t speak to supporters trusts. Don’t engage with the fans in any way. Haven’t spent any money to upgrade the facilities which have fallen way behind their rivals. The stadium leaks when it rains etc.

    The only reason they’ve invested in the squad is to protect the revenue streams from sponsors, CL money etc.

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    #178563
    Hightown hopeHightown hope
    Moderator

    I think the fans yesterday were well within their right to protest, and good on them for doing it. However, the stadium invasion and the violence and vandalism negated any good the protest may have done. The pictures of idiots in the goalmouth taking selfies, and using the banners over the seats as a giant slide just allows people to imagine that all of them were just lads ‘out on the lash’…because that’s what those pictures suggested. And when it gets to innocent passer-bys having their cars attacked and police being attacked it just adds fuel to the fire for those who wish to ignore the justifiable reasons for protest.

    The trouble is that every club has it’s share of idiots, without exception, but unfortunately that is society, and we ain’t going to change that. But Sky’s hypocrisy in all this is also just breathtaking, not least Gary Neville. While I agreed with almost all he said the other week about the ESL and it killing the grassroots of English football, it did occur to me that didn’t he do much the same with his purchase of Salford and ignoring the plight of other local struggling clubs, like Bury and Bolton? And didn’t Sky do much the same in 1992 with their investment in the EPL, which really just resulted in the rich getting richer and the gap between the haves and the have-nots growing season by season. Their head in hands faux horror about the proposal was just protecting their own investment, as far as I could see.

    Football this season has just been a horror shitshow (except maybe to City fans!) with no crowds, no atmosphere, ESL proposals, VAR decisions, and not least, my own team. The fun and release that football gives people has been sucked out of the game by oligarchs, faceless corporations, media moguls, law makers and, of course the pandemic.

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