3rd December 2018 at 1:14 pm #28830
Don’t disagree with a word of that Mikus. Great post.3rd December 2018 at 1:24 pm #28831
Just to move the goalposts slightly (see what I did there?), but how much is enough? How much has Maureen already spunked in the two years he’s been there? Got no dog in the fight, but I think it’s a bit harsh on the YooUtd bigwigs to say they should have backed him last summer… he’s spent what? 300m on players already? Not their fault if he’s wasted it and fully understandable they don’t want to continue to write checks. Who can blame them? I can’t…
The bigger issue, to me, is simply nobody is really expecting Maureen to actually coach the players he’s got, to improve them as such. He really is coming across as a “Championship Manager”, just buying players until he hits on a winning formula… I wonder what other managers like Poncho, Howe, Silva, even Benitiz, could have done with those checks over the last 24 months…3rd December 2018 at 1:36 pm #28832
I said it ages ago that they needed to fire Jose. You have to ask them, what are they waiting for exactly? It’s clear that he’s not the guy for them but they have had a season to rescue for a while but with every game, that slips away.
Utd are more than a point a game behind City and for the money they have invested in the squad and manager, that’s an absolute disgrace. Keep this up and they’ll finish 40+ points off the top, out of maybe even EL qualification and a season without silverware. Now, there’s no shame in not winning a cup but if you carry Jose all the way tilt he end of the season, next season is potentially going to be ruined as the new guy gets the team playing his way. You could always hope for a Sarri but even Pepe and Klopp needed time, so it’s best to expect this to be the way.
It’s bloody no-brainer that Jose needs to be fired, now. I think they should have been spending the last 2 months negotiating with the replacement. Zidane has been available all this time! Get him in and he’ll show you why Pogba was such an expensive player. You’ll remember or discover players in your squad, as if they were new signings. We had the same with Klopp. He got so much more out of the lads we already had and then obviously made suitable signings for his style of play, over time.
Pogba doesn’t suit Jose, Sanchez also. You know, I’m honestly not sure what attack minded players who are Drogba, actually suit Jose.
Jesus Christ, it must be miserable as a Utd supporter right now. I would be on permanent meltdown.3rd December 2018 at 1:43 pm #28834
Chucky, exactly. Jose has been fully backed. owners want to see some return but he put soo much of their money to work and the side didn’t improve one bit. Not one tiny bit! Good money after bad, the sunken loss fallacy at a very high level.
Rafa would hopefully never go to Utd but he’s not their type of manager anyway, although TBH, he’d win them something and given the line of defensive toss they’ve had so far, they’d only be delighted to have a defensive style coach who can actually work with players on a one to one basis and tweak how they play in order to get the most out of them. TBH, the last good season that we had under Rafa, we weren’t playing very defensively at all. Ye still beat us to that title though, ye ****ers 😉 … Good old Fergie. christ couldn’t he come out of retirement for the remainder of the season, as ye buttered up Zidane or what have you?3rd December 2018 at 1:48 pm #28835
Banjo, that’s a fair point. But if you’re going to install Mourinho as manager, then you need to constantly freshen things up because things go very stale with him very quickly if you don’t do that. And it’ll obviously cost you big to keep doing that. If Man Utd did have a change of heart now and decided to back him, then it’s now too late, that’s the point I was making. Too much damage has been done in recent months. Also the game has changed so much now that certain players in the dressing room are now untouchable, even to the manager.
3rd December 2018 at 2:04 pm #28840
- This reply was modified 5 months, 3 weeks ago by Mikus.
Micky, quick google gave me the below list, only (cough) 465million (Eruos I believe) on players in 2 and a bit years… sorry cyber chum, but calls to “continue” to back him when it’s obvious to everyman and his dog he’s only taking the team backwards, are only going to make you look like Mr. Mad, Mad Street, Madchester’s next door neighbor… 🙂
Like I said, got no dog in the race, but bloody hell, how much does the supposed “Greatest Manager in the Last Twenty Years” need?
Paul Pogba 105,00 Mill.
Romelu Lukaku 84,70 Mill.
Fred 59,00 Mill.
Nemanja Matic 44,70 Mill.
Henrikh Mkhitaryan 42,00 Mill.
Eric Bailly 38,00 Mill.
Victor Lindelöf 35,00 Mill.
Alexis Sánchez 34,00 Mill.
Diogo Dalot 22,00 Mill.
Lee Grant 1,70 Mill.3rd December 2018 at 2:22 pm #28849
nine nine nineModerator545 pts
Mourinho is in a big hole and he often hasn’t helped himself and I’m not sure he’s capable of getting out of it now.
The United job was massive though and monies have been wrongly invested. But you can’t question Mourinho’s ability as a Manager to deliver trophies even at United with all its problems something that neither Pochettino or Klopp have been able to do across 4 years and 3 years plus respectively albeit they have had considerably lesser funds to invest than Mourinho.
Where United go from here is difficult to guess but I wouldn’t write them off of getting a win v Arsenal.
3rd December 2018 at 2:24 pm #28850
- This reply was modified 5 months, 3 weeks ago by nine nine nine.
I don’t actually disagree Banjo, I’m simply saying if you have him as manager he’s going to cost you a fortune because you need to keep bringing players in to keep harmony in the team to stop anything lingering or getting out of hand. Even after he won the league with Chelsea in his second stint, things went south very quickly when they didn’t freshen things up the summer after. Had Man Utd backed him more this summer, it still may not have been enough.3rd December 2018 at 2:25 pm #28851
Jose time in the P, is simply over! A much younger manager needs to be appointed.3rd December 2018 at 2:52 pm #28857
Mikus, I don’t agree with this line of thinking. I mean, I’m not saying that rotating players in/out of the club doesnt work but more that he is the cause of these problems in the first place. My guess is that Jose can better cover up his horrible personality for short spells. the successes help cover up the nasty side to him. over time though and during tough periods, he can’t hide it. Just look at how he carries on with the press during these times. He’s either calling the refs into question, or publicly bashing his own players. This of course is if he isn’t too busy starting fights with other managers. You can only imagine how intolerable he is when he hasn’t got a camera in his face.3rd December 2018 at 3:53 pm #28861
Again Mak, I wouldn’t disagree with much of that. I think the situation with Jose can be summarised thus:
He is a very effective and tactically astute manager who, when he finds a good chemistry with players can be extremely successful. However, eventually he starts rubbing people up the wrong way and hence the squad needs to be freshened up regularly to stop anything lingering and getting out of hand. What has exacerbated things in more recent years has been that some players as I say are now untouchable, and will thus win any battle that Jose picks with them. Hence Pogba looks to be winning the battle with Jose because the club have invested more in the former. So inevitably there is irreconcilable discord between the players and Jose and the manager will always be the fall guy in such situations.
3rd December 2018 at 4:44 pm #28871
- This reply was modified 5 months, 3 weeks ago by Mikus.
All good points. I do think we’re making assumptions though in terms of his spending. Utd have spent terribly for a long time, so it wouldn’t be all that surprising to learn that Mourinho has had little say on who comes in. I’m not saying that’s the case. I’m just saying we don’t know.
As for the coaching argument, players still have to be of a certain quality and often possess a certain attitude to be able to bring the best out of them. I mean Pep is generally regarded as the best coach in the game at the moment but why couldn’t he coach Bravo to be a good enough keeper for them? Why hasn’t he made Mendy be a solid defender, which you’d expect at nearly 50mil? Why has Nolito disappeared without trace? Why didn’t Iheanacho realise his potential at City? See my point?
I also find the “imagine if [insert overachieving manager’s name] had the money [underachieving manager] has had” completely pointless. The irony, in particular related to Mourinho is that he is where he is because he massively over achieved at the likes of Porto. Managers like Poch, Howe and the like haven’t come close to achieving what Jose did in his days at Porto and Inter. Look at Klopp. He was an overachieving manager last season. People were saying “imagine if he could spend what Mourinho could.” He then spends money on 3 of the most expensive players ever in their positions and most agree Liverpool are not as effective as last season, particularly in Europe. Look t Ranieri. He did the unthinkable, gets some money to spend the year after and gets the sack then struggles for a job. People wrongly assume an overachieving manager will always overachieve and there is so little evidence that is the case.3rd December 2018 at 4:50 pm #28872
P.S I think Jose will go regardless but I don’t think the constant criticism of him is fair. One man in the game can hold his CV up against Jose and criticise him and that’s Pep. Even then, Jose has the advantage of having taking 2 very unfncied sides to the biggest title in club football, twice. The rest will retire at varying degrees below his achievements.3rd December 2018 at 4:58 pm #28873
Eddy, don’t think anybody is saying Maureen wasn’t a great manager, taking Porto and winning the CL fifteen years ago and Milan eight years ago were wonderful achievements, but how long can he dine out on those achievements? The clocks ticks for everyone, but dining out on past achievements isn’t going to last forever, and I reckon a big bowl of Instant Whip is on the cards (Butterscotch flavor)3rd December 2018 at 4:59 pm #28874
Hightown hopeParticipant147 pts
Ed…I don’t think anyone is arguing with his CV. It’s his more recent history that is getting him all this criticism.
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