This topic contains 91 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by  nine nine nine 6 days, 4 hours ago.

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  • #43163 Score: 1

    Mikus
    Participant
    107 pts

    (2/2) Just to add, if we are going to be absolutist about such things, what about an attacker who is ruled offside by the linesman but is later proved not to be? The following article (albeit an old one now in terms of where VAR is) is still interesting – it mentions that linesmen should delay raising the flag to get by this potential problem and that it can be checked later if a goal is scored. But all this is adding more and more for linesmen to think about when making decisions. That is not helpful or healthy for them.

    https://www.espn.co.uk/football/english-premier-league/23/blog/post/3389032/var-offside-is-an-objective-decision-not-a-clear-and-obvious-error

    newbalance
    #43164 Score: 0
    Pagan
    Pagan
    Participant
    129 pts

    Minus, it would be nice to think that offside using VAR would be a matter of fact, unfortunately in order to make it fact then the camera would need to be perpendicular to the last but one player, add to this that you’re judging a foot on the ground to knees, chests, heads, then a coloured line draw as a best guess across the pitch isn’t really accurate enough to say a player is on or off to an inch…..Pagan

    #43165 Score: 0

    Mikus
    Participant
    107 pts

    Pagan, fair point and the article above also briefly mentions this, that there *is* a grey area in which a call would have to be made by the referee for very tight decisions. Whether the Virtual Reality stadium cameras (that Sky Sports used last season) could eventually give a more accurate perspective of exactly where players’ knees, chests, etc are with regards to tight offsides I don’t know, but I agree there is currently a limit on how far you can determine accurately whether a player is offside or not for marginal situations. But I was commenting more from the perspective that I don’t think football offsides were ever meant to be determined at such a minute level anyway (even if the technology was there). At the end of the day, we want the technology to rectify howlers, not rule the game down to the inch (or less).

    #43166 Score: 0
    Moos
    Moos
    Participant
    13 pts

    Doesn’t matter if the flag is up you play to the whistle, probably linesmen roles will become less of an issue and decrease maybe even become extinct.

    #43167 Score: 0
    Moos
    Moos
    Participant
    13 pts

    Or linesman only function will become to keep the peace on the sidelines and field.

    #43168 Score: 0
    steveosnakeeye
    steveosnakeeye
    Participant
    46 pts

    i would have though aerial cameras able to track along the length of the pitch would the way to go, possibly even with ones on the side but when does it all go to far? far call from jumpers for goal posts!

    #43169 Score: 0

    nine nine nine
    Moderator
    581 pts

    It’s still all about interpretation Mike Riley has confirmed that under VAR in the PL the penalty against Sissoko in the CL Final would not be given and that he doesn’t believe it was a penalty and has confirmed why it wasn’t and said in the PL next season such incidents wouldn’t be given,so we’re going to end up with two types of VAR one for the PL and one for the CL etc under UEFA Referees which will just add more confusion.

    Overall despite the difficulties with implementing VAR I still think it helps the officials get things more right than wrong but it will take time to bed it all in, Riley forecasts 3 years and it will cause plenty of debate along the way.

    #43170 Score: 0
    steveosnakeeye
    steveosnakeeye
    Participant
    46 pts

    noin noin noin…..so basically business as usual in that respect?!
    its always been the case that refereeing in europe is vastly different to that in the UK hence more diving, cheating and play acting in europe, we have always struggles with this as fouls that wouldnt be given in the PL are given in the CL, this wont change a bean!

    #43171 Score: 0
    Blaze
    Blaze
    Participant
    2 pts

    My view is that the guy upstairs must make all the decisions or else the players will pressurise the ref to go look at the monitor on the sidelines thereby wasting time and opening him up to more protests by the players. And yes it looks more and more likely that linesmen days are numbered.

    #43174 Score: 0
    Pagan
    Pagan
    Participant
    129 pts

    Assistant refs won’t be phased out, unless all decisions are going to be made by VAR. Assistant will still be there for things on the refs blind side, and the ball going out of play.
    For me the ref on the field has to review the video on the monitor otherwise he has no responsibility and will just shrug his shoulders and say it’s not my decision, you will also get fouls outside the box judged differently to those inside the box as they will be two different peoples opinions, so that’s consistency out of the window.
    Yes the players will be pressuring the ref to go to VAR and ultimately they’ll have to do it as the technology is there, so welcome to the 2 hour match….Pagan

    #43178 Score: 0

    nine nine nine
    Moderator
    581 pts

    Good points Pagan. And let’s not forget only “Four types of decisions can be reviewed using VAR: goals (and violations in the build-up to them), penalties, red cards and mistaken identity in awarding a card. For a decision made on the pitch to be overturned, it must be a “clear error”.

    #43200 Score: 0

    Mikus
    Participant
    107 pts

    But with regard to offsides Nine, define “clear error”. To a linesman’s eye, Aguero was level with the Spurs defender in the CL QF. One could argue he was “clearly offside” in the video but the key question is whether it was a “clear error” in light of what the linesman saw? And if not, how does one then define “clear error”? Where does one draw the lines of acceptable and not acceptable error margin? Many accepted the Aguero decision because he was still shown to be offside, but as I said at the time, had VAR not been available, in the studio afterwards you could well imagine all the pundits looking at the decision before shrugging their shoulders and saying it was tight and you give the attacker the benefit of the doubt and hence the goal would have stood. But with VAR being somewhat more absolutist, the culture is changing and we’re now labelling a very tight decision as “clear” (when, in the context of the linesman’s eye, it wasn’t clear).

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 3 days ago by  Mikus.
    • This reply was modified 1 week, 3 days ago by  Mikus.
    • This reply was modified 1 week, 3 days ago by  Mikus.
    #43204 Score: 0
    Chucky McChuckface
    Chucky McChuckface
    Participant
    334 pts

    Don’t like VAR one little bit but at least the off-side “issues” are pretty much black and white. It’s either offside or it isn’t. It’s the more grey matters that VAR won’t solve that get me and more worryingly the element of a players “intent” is completely ignored when watching an incident from 52 angles at 12 different speeds. The Llorente “hip-ball” for example, we can argue forever about whether it was handball or not, but I don’t think Llorente meant it one little bit and VAR did bugger all to fix that. Those are the instances where VAR is going to really screw-up the game.

    #43205 Score: 0

    nine nine nine
    Moderator
    581 pts

    Mikus, not my words mate “Four types of decisions can be reviewed using VAR: goals (and violations in the build-up to them), penalties, red cards and mistaken identity in awarding a card. For a decision made on the pitch to be overturned, it must be a “clear error” . was the definition of VAR hence the quotes.

    As. I said above “Overall despite the difficulties with implementing VAR I still think it helps the officials get things more right than wrong but it will take time to bed it all in”.

    It’s here now and love it or loathe it it’s getting more tight decisions right than wrong in a few years time I think we’ll all probably be asking how did we ever do without it.

    It works in Rugby and it works in Cricket and we just have to get used to it.

    #43206 Score: 0

    Mikus
    Participant
    107 pts

    We’ll see Nine, I’m not anti technology, just merely pointing inconsistencies in their own statements, and that in the advent of VAR, whilst we may see some improvements, there will also be flips sides (like longer games as Pagan has alluded to) – to actually improve something without compromising the original benefits is extremely difficult – it’s usually a trade off. And just a final point regarding rugby and cricket – they are much less fluid than football is.

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 3 days ago by  Mikus.
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