Home Community General Football Time to abolish VAR?

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  • #177470
    Nike19Nike19
    Participant

    I definitely can’t make head and tail of the decision involving West Brom.

    The lines and being drawn too with play that’s deep. Personally, I’ve lost any patience I had left with ‘the finest of margins’.

    I don’t think those that made the rules and the ones having to implement them using VAR are tied in knots.

    Fans increasingly have had enough.

    Just go back to how it was – get rid!

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    #177471
    sean the sailor
    Participant

    It’s ruining the game especially for fans mate. Really is terrible but clubs voted for it. Can’t see it going anytime soon

    It’s not being used right. It should only be used for decisions that are not clear and obvious. Not over analysing every decision . I heard dermot Gallagher say wolves and Liverpool goals were offside because of the technology??? That’s rubbish as the technology does not work like hawk eye. It’s not 100 % accurate. It’s a ref drawing lines and it’s not 100% correct . You cannot calm those goals offside with 100 % accuracy. It’s not black and white with those decisions.

    I’d get rid of it tomorrow. Can’t celebrate a goal. It really is bad. That wba decision yday is the worst decision so far since it cane

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    #177472
    Nike19Nike19
    Participant

    Agree with everything Sean mate. I’m tired of it.

    I think if anything, the Lines-people on the pitch are capable of doing a better job.

    I like the monitor on the pitch for the Ref to be able to revisit an incident, but everything else to me right now is just twisted.

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    #177473
    nine nine nine
    Moderator

    Yesterday’s West Brom incident was a one off like the goal line technology one off at Villa last season 99.9% of the time in respect of offsides VAR is 100% accurate .

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    #177474
    BlazeBlaze
    Participant

    Var is definitely the right way to go all they need to do is simplfy the rules especially the offside rule. Just make it offside from where your boots are and that will end all the issues. Every problem in the world takes so long to correct.

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    #177475
    sean the sailor
    Participant

    Is it though nine? If it’s is far enough mate but is the technology ,ie the drawing of the lines absolutely 100% accurate or is it the var ref dr deciding by his eye view of the lines that it’s offside?

    Who draws the lines? The ref or the technology? So every offside is called absolutely spot on and there can be no error?

    I didn’t know that.that’s fair enough so mate. If the lines are 100 % accurate then I can’t argue with that , I thought it was being judged by the lines and the human eye which can be prone to error

    Some of the lines drawn are ridiculous

    It’s not clear and obvious and it’s ruining the game for all of us fans but it’s going no were

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    #177477
    nine nine nine
    Moderator

    Sean, I haven’t seen a VAR any offside decisions previously that should be overturned or any analysis of any VAR decisions where it has been suggests they should be overturned.

    My understanding is that the lines are applied by the technology.

    I think a good guide to the accuracy of VAR in respect of offside decisions is how many times an incident like this cropped up previously times the number of of games that VAR has been officiating offside I can’t remember one previously against probably thousands of games played.

    People can call for VAR to be discarded re offside in favour of linesmen but ironically the linesman called it wrong anyway.😊

    And getting rid of VAR in favour of linesmen will lead to numerous wrong decisions again.

    I totally agree though with Blazes post below:

    “Var is definitely the right way to go all they need to do is simplfy the rules especially the offside rule. Just make it offside from where your boots are and that will end all the issues. Every problem in the world takes so long to correct.”

    Cheers 9’s

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    #177479
    PaganPagan
    Participant

    In respect to offside VAR is not 100% accurate, it’s only as accurate as the best guess when the ball moves forwards, where they draw the lines from and the frame rate. If you watch cricket, one frame can make a lot of difference when it come to run outs…..Pagan

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    #177480
    nine nine nine
    Moderator

    Pagan, bar last night how many VAR offside decisions have been questioned across all the games played over several seasons and the enormous amount of offside decisions taken over that period.

    I can’t think of one.

    And anyway the linesman got it wrong too!😊

    Much Ado about nothing!

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    #177481
    PaganPagan
    Participant

    9, you stated VAR is 100% accurate, I just said is only as accurate as the best guess of when the ball moves forward, where the officials decide which part of the body to draw the line from, and the frame rate.

    From the pictures using the above, then the decisions are correct, I’m just saying that I don’t think the system is accurate enough to make decisions of an inch within the limits of the technology. If you watch cricket a frame of video can make 2 or 3 inches difference when they look at run outs. So if the frame rate is making that much difference, then tolerance for error has to be at least that.

    For me if the decision is within double the tolerance, then it’s onside…..Pagan

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    #177482
    sean the sailor
    Participant

    Nine questioned by who mate? If fans, pundits etc then a good few have been questioned and not many are 100 % clear.

    How can anyone call that jota or wolves offside at the weekend? It’s no way 100 % clear.

    The inconsistent decisions are still going on every week even with the refs

    The clear Newcastle pen at the weekebd, pogba elbow, the Ferdinho tackle for city. Burnley no review when Newcastle player kicked burnley guy foot in pen area but Liverpool v BRighton exact same tackle given as a pen.

    We question about 30 var revised decisions and then some things don’t even go to var. it’s a shambles and it’s destroying the game as a spectacle

    So guys, just to be clear. When we see the lines being drawn and it pops up on the screen offside or onside then it’s the var technology making that decision with no input from the var ref?

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    #177484
    PaganPagan
    Participant

    Sean, the technology used is all about getting the lines square across the pitch and then dropping down the lines from the body parts in question.

    The VAR official will make his best guess of when the ball is played forward and will also mark the points on the players he deems closest to the goal, these are both subjective and can make an awful lot of difference.

    I would say that the decisions made on the evidence provided have been correct, it’s just whether the evidence is accurate enough to make such fine calls…..Pagan

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    #177485
    Brian blue
    Participant

    Simplyfying the rules is a good idea, my concern then would be how do you simply humans who make up the rules, plus, most with an interest to do so i suspect

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    #177486
    Brian blue
    Participant

    Right or wrong…I think most fans have had enough, it really is spoiling the game and I cannot see any viable change to make it better. I hate it when every goal is referred to VAR. even penalties….just lets us have a game of football for 90 minutes

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    #177487
    sean the sailor
    Participant

    Thanks pagan. Explained perfectly so there can be Human error and it’s not 100 % fool proof

    Brian, I get you mate but as nine has said previously, it’s here to stay so they need to put huge work into making it better

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    #177489
    Mikus
    Participant

    Now that the technology is being implemented, it will be here to stay. The utopians got their way. But, as is always the case, utopia hasn’t been reached. I’m sure there will be many productive committee meetings that will sort everything out 😁

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    #177490
    Nike19Nike19
    Participant

    Thanks Pagan.

    That definitely helped me understand the process and the purpose of it better.

    I just wish they would scrap body parts and stick with feet. When they start to use 2 lines and play around with them, that’s when it gets confusing. It’s tricky trying to piece it all together also from the point of when the ball is played to where the player’s position is (on cue).

    Agree with Brian, they need to simplify the rule and I think more leverage should be given to the officials on the pitch.

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    #177491
    nine nine nine
    Moderator

    Sean, the analysis last night was about an offside decision that VAR couldn’t legislate on because the lines were somehow for the first time as far as I’ve seen since it was introduced hidden by the players body so they sent it back to the linesmen and he got it wrong anyway.😊

    Personally I think the offside decisions in respect of VAR are black and white the player is either offside or onside and is all but infallible and it’s massively improved the accuracy of the offside decisions imo.

    The problem that still exist in VAR are the margins of ruling players offside by fingernails etc that is something that needs sorting out.

    The rest of VAR still relates to human error when the VAR reviews big calls they will always get some wrong even after reviewing them backwards and forwards via video replays the other problem is that just like in football and Rugby such decisions take time which can be more than frustrating for football fans especially those match going fans in Stadiums where they have to wait before they know whether it’s a goal or not all of that is frustrating and always will be.

    It’s not perfect Sean it never will be but it’s probably better than we had and it’s certainly better than we had in relationship to offside.

    It’s not going to go away buddie hopefully some of the glitches can be worked out I’m sure there will be some clarifications re changes to how offside is currently managed in the Summer.

    I’ll leave it there now as I don’t want to get drawn back into me participating in digging VAR over and over and over again.

    We’ve got it and it’s not going away it’s certainly not perfect but hopefully it is not beyond improvement.

    Cheers 9’s

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    #177494
    sean the sailor
    Participant

    Fair enough mate. I don’t think it’s black and white at all they are saying at ours etc are offside. Clear and obvious ones but not fingernails and no way is it 100 % accurate in my view.

    It may have improved some decisions but it’s still the same every week. Inconsistency and more questions then answers and it’s ruined the gane. When’s the last time anyone really celebrated a goal? I don’t. I sit and wait. It’s crap as a fan

    If var didn’t exist, we be still discussing terrible referring decisions week in and week out. It’s a huge topic of discussion so of course var is going to be dogged out on here as it’s ruining the game as a spectacle me aul chum

    Absolutely no common sense and inconsistent rubbish nearly every week.

    They have got so many decisions wrong while consulting var.

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    #177497
    PaganPagan
    Participant

    VAR was brought in as a response to TV coverage where the likes of Sky were saying “we can clearly see that was offside/onside/a foul/a dive etc. Why can’t they use technology to help the ref.

    Unfortunately, the we can see “clearly” has been replaced by “we can micro examine to limits of the technology we have to try and prove factually”

    For me I think we have to define what clear and obvious is, currently it’s “forensically examine” whereas I’d be a lot happier with “should the officials have spotted that in real time” or “would you expect the officials to get that right in real time” in other words just get rid of the howlers….. Pagan

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