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  • #176885
    nine nine nine
    Moderator

    A much better England performance in the second half apart from in the closing stages.

    Poland will be a much bigger test and we will have to shackle Lewandowski which will be no easy task.

    I suspect Southgate will revert to a back three and won’t make too many changes.

    As an England fan Mount has to play as a Chelsea fan I would like to see him rested.

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    #176886
    Editor
    Keymaster

    Absolutely Nine, fingers crossed.

    Agree Nine, Mount has slotted in ever so nicely to this side. Some players just really suit the England side and he’s one of them. See him really cementing that position now.

    Big decisions for Southgate at the back. Back 4? Back 3? Which fullbacks to go with? He has some nice problems, albeit tricky ones. Chilwell has rarely let Southgate down but Shaw has been so good this season and is slightly more versatile in being capable of playing left of a back 3. Same on the right. Any of the RBs could potentially start.

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    #176887
    nine nine nine
    Moderator

    Yes Ed, Mount is coming along very nicely and is developing as he goes Jody Morris and Frank have played a big part in his development but he seems to have stepped up a notch or two under Tuchel.

    As you say some big decisions for Southgate to make on selection I thought Shaw played very well yesterday and I can see him continuing on Wednesday I suspect we will only see minor changes v Poland with some great options off the bench this is a very good group of England players hopefully Southgate can get the best out of them going forwards.

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    #176888
    MightyMoosMightyMoos
    Participant

    Eddie Howe will do a better job as England manager,we have all these natural attacking players but they don’t play to their natural attacking abilities.

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    #176889
    Nike19Nike19
    Participant

    Agree Moos, I think it’s time we moved forward and take on a new Manager. We’re getting the results which of course is the aim of the game, but the football played is a drain to watch at the best of times.

    There are some individuals with real potential, but others equally I feel wouldn’t stand up against tougher opposition.

    We only end up with our hearts broken again and it’ll be back to square one.

    (Apologies in sounding pessimistic)

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    #176890
    Mikus
    Participant

    I find it increasingly harder to take interest in England which saddens me as it should be more for the purists in terms of players truly playing for the shirt. But I think as Didi Hamann wrote in his book some time ago – the problem with England is cultural. We continue to love putting players on pedestals which filters through to the players and inevitably builds their own egos and expectations. And then pressure builds to make such players un-droppable. The golden generation may now be long gone, but I just don’t see enough of a change in this individualistic culture (exacerbated by club rivalry). So a change in the manager cannot really change this. I don’t know what will.

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    #176891
    Editor
    Keymaster

    I’d be all for Eddie Howe getting the U21 job. Don’t think he’s done enough to get the senior job (not that I ever thought Southgate had, mind). Even Lampard for the U21 job wouldn’t be a bad shout. I think Lampard is one of those in a difficult position now where he probably doesn’t want to step down to the Championship (although I think he should) but he’s not really done enough to be in with a shout for another decent PL job.

    In other words, I think we can be a bit braver with the U21 job than we can the senior job. The pressure is less and we can afford to put a less established manager in the role in the hope we find a gem, who can in turn be brought into the senior setup if successful.

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    #176892
    Editor
    Keymaster

    Mikus, I think that’s definitely been true in the past but, as much as I’ve criticised him, I think that’s changed under Southgate. Who in the current side is honestly undroppable? Kane is maybe the only one and one barren spell would surely change that. We’ve already seen with TAA that Southgate can drop players if they’re not playing well, regardless of reputation. I can’t think of one player, aside from Kane, who is a dead cert to start if fit. Sterling possibly but not at the same level of certainty you could have said about the likes of Beckham, Rooney, Gerrard and co in the past.

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    #176893
    Mikus
    Participant

    I think they’re still a youngish side though Ed, but the culture is very much there to build some of them up and eventually deem several of them un-droppable. It may seem a small point, but I watched some of the aftermath media reaction after the San Marino game, particularly regarding Ollie Watkins. Now I’m not for a minute decrying him for being personally happy to score for England and making progress, but the way the pundits on TV kept saying how wonderful it was for him and how he’ll now basically be ‘buzzing’ – I just felt like shouting stop! Already they’re starting to build him up and turn the focus on to him. What if he now has a few so-so games in the future after previously being built up? How will that affect his confidence? I might be wrong, but I just don’t think they do this as much in other countries where the focus is more on the overall team than individuals. We’ve got to stop this, particularly the media.

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    #176894
    Editor
    Keymaster

    I’m not sure Mikus. They’re definitely a young side but there’s some very experienced International players in there despite the low average age. Henderson, Sterling and Walker, all approaching 60 caps. Pickford & Rashford on 30 & 40 caps. Would anyone bat an eyelid if any one of those were not playing the first game this summer?

    I’m not sure they would. Had Beckham, Gerrard, Terry or any of that generation been benched for the first game at that many caps, there would have been an outcry. I think I could even stretch to saying that even if Kane was benched for the first game, say for DCL, there would be not much fuss.

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    #176895
    Mikus
    Participant

    I think we’re in a transitional period Ed, so perhaps not. I don’t want to take away any of the positivity about the young players coming through – I just fear history repeating itself. If, hypothetically, we had another Gerrard – Lampard situation come about – would the manager have the guts to drop one of them for the benefit of the balance of the overall team? I’m really not sure.

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    #176896
    Editor
    Keymaster

    No, it’s a fair point. But isn’t this exactly what he’s done with TAA? TAA has often been described as the best RB in the World and was unreal last season. Still playing regularly for the Champions, too. But hasn’t he, by dropping him (with little fuss), shown that we’ve made some progress in that regard? I suppose you could say TAA wasn’t yet established enough for this to be comparable but I think it speaks volumes that he dropped him.

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    #176897
    Mikus
    Participant

    Possibly Ed, but I think Trent has been in mixed form. Also, I still sense that there is a feeling that defensively some feel there’s a question mark over him, even though he has improved here. Maybe because of such things, Southgate simply felt they’d be less of a backlash. But, we shall see. If the tide really is turning here, and players are picked based on the effectiveness and balance they bring rather than individual qualities, I’ll be delighted. But the media also has to start easing back here.

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    #176898
    nine nine nine
    Moderator

    Agree with you Ed with everything you say in your post @ 1:28pm. Howe would be great for the Under21’s job but he’s not ready for the full England job.

    Southgate wouldn’t have got the full England job as he to was not qualified circumstances propelled him into the full England job.

    Personally I think the FA shot themelves in the foot by taking the decision that only an Englishman should manage England because we aren’t blessed with the quality of English Coaches to justify that decision.

    It’s pointless imo calling for Southgate’s head he wasn’t ever my choice as England Manager his managerial career didn’t support such an appointment and it all came about by accident.

    I also wonder how much better we might be now with some like Carlo Ancelotti in charge but that’s not currently possible under the FA’s rules and in taking England to the World Cup Semi Finals and under the current “English only” rule Southgate had done enough imo to have another shot at it imo in 2022.

    What happens after that is open to conjecture but if the “only an Englishman” rule is still in place the list of potential candidates with any sort of credibility to take the role will likely be very short.

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    #176899
    nine nine nine
    Moderator

    In respect of TAA imo that was a justifiable decision by Southgate TAA is great going forwards but vulnerable defensively and he’s gone backwards this season and there are others playing in TAA’s position who are better all rounders than TAA “currently” imo and obviously Southgate’s.

    It’s up to TAA to show he’s worthy of future selection for England again I’m not sure he will be able to do that before the Euro Finals take place but nothing is settled yet so it’s not completely out of the question.

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    #176901
    Nike19Nike19
    Participant

    Personally, I’ve never rated TAA the way others have done as a Right Back. His attacking qualities have masked his purpose, his main purpose. Although with that in mind, the modern day ‘Right Back’ is more about being able to run up and down the flank and be an outlet for forward-positioned players.

    Somebody I’m seeing at the moment who is talented as a coach is Brendan Rodgers. The work he’s done so far with some of those Leicester players deserve plaudits.

    We need retain the attitude of selecting players purely by their ability and current form rather than reputation and the club they play for; something Southgate in greatness has banished and chooses with an open-mind.

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    #176903
    Editor
    Keymaster

    Completely agree Nine.

    Nil, Rodgers is actually a great shout for the England job, putting aside the “English only” rule Nine wrote about. I can understand the desire to have an English coach but it really does limit us. Who is even the best English coach at the moment? Dean Smith? The names don’t roll off the tongue do they?

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    #176904
    sean the sailor
    Participant

    I’m glad Taa was dropped. Gives him a well needed rest but I don’t agree with why Southgate did it. Taa has been playing well for the last month and was excellent defensively v wolves and rb. He hasn’t been great at all this season but bit of hypocritical from Southgate when others are in the same situation

    Chilwell has not played many games since tuchel came in and hasn’t really set this seasin alight. Matt targett off villa has been the best left back after shaw this season .

    Walker is not cities 1st choice right full and hasn’t been great but he’s playing??

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    #176905
    sean the sailor
    Participant

    Nil, Taa is one of the best right backs in Europe. He’s having a tough spell through having Covid and far to much football. His defensive game had improved considerably in the last two years.I watch him week in abd week out and he defends his back list much better. People give out that he’s to high up the pitch mate but that’s the managers orders. Outstanding player and still so young. He’s having a blip but let’s not forget how good he has been for the last few years.

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    #176908
    Brian blue
    Participant

    I think I take Mikus view on this, it was a young side and we should encourage that and be patient. I only switched on just when we scored the second goal but it appears to me we played in a frenzied style and how I wish we had somebody that put there foot on the ball and just thought about direction of play. I am not a lover of internationals but I do like the thought of playing more youngsters and let them develop but it still need at least one “steady Eddie”

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