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  • #131854
    Mikus
    Participant

    If Maguire is a “means to an end”, then that’s fair enough (though the season ain’t over yet, and no targets have been achieved yet). Man Utd probably one of very few clubs that could afford to pay over the odds for him. But I still think you’ll need to replace him if Utd are to win the big prizes again.

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    #131860
    sean the sailor
    Participant

    I’m not on twitter Ed if that’s what you are referring to chum?

    I’ve read articles giving Kepa plenty of stick and I’ve given him plenty of stick on here .

    I’m going by what I see. I see maguire as a lumbering oaf at times.

    Also utd have probably the best defensive right back in the league. He’s made a huge difference. No one hardly gets by him. They get by maguire far to easily at times

    How many goals as awb as been really poor at ? Ok different positions etc but I can’t think of many. I can think of 3 goals from maguire in the last 4 weeks.

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    #131864
    nine nine nine
    Moderator

    Well Southgate clearly rates Maguire.?

    Not sure why Maguire gets regularly hung out to dry certainly today wasn’t just down to him and even the most loyal United fan will agree he’s not worth £80m few are but he’s the best England and United have got and United are better defensively this season because of him.

    Does he make mistakes of course he does but they all do even the very best.

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    #131866
    sean the sailor
    Participant

    Ed, Alison has missed about 12 games if not more this season. He has 14?clean sheets in 24 ganes. Liverpool are playing shite and don’t care hence we have conceded 8 goals in 7!games. I would give our goalscagainest much thought at this stage as we are in holidays weeks now

    We so I would compare utds defensive record to ours as I really don’t think we be conceding that many goals if we had something to play for

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    #131867
    sean the sailor
    Participant

    I rate Gomez better then maguire nine and that’s not Liverpool bias.

    He’s only 22, still
    Learning the game bigtime but I’d have him over maguire . Gomez has been poor after the restart as have the whole liveroool team but look at the goals utd have conceded ?

    The two Burnley goals at old tarford. Maguire was terrible for both goals.

    Norwich goal at Carrow road the lads breezes by him as does Bergwijn and stanlas.

    The city header at the ethiad.

    These are all off the top of my head so there probably more.

    He gets stick by some because he was 80m abd gets danced by.

    Who else can Southgate pick?

    Stones?

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    #131870
    Mikus
    Participant

    Quite so Sean – last season is where the bar is – both us & City conceded 22 & 23 goals respectively. Man Utd are on course to concede about 37 goals this season which isn’t far off the 42 goals Liverpool conceded in 2016/17 which was considered too high, hence the targeting of Van Dijk & Alisson.

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    #131926
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    “but he’s the best England and United have got”

    I annoy Liverpool fans with how highly I rate Gomez, so there is absolutely no way that I’m not going to tell you how much I disagree with that statement.

    Gomez plays in a defense where everyone takes huge credit. Everyone around him gets called world class here or there and his performances are always under the radar.

    It’s become popular to talk about how he loses out in headers but it’s only ever talk from stats junkies. He could definitely improve that aspect of his game but he has strengths that the likes of Maguire could never hope to match. He’s quicker than Van Dijk and has cleaned up after him too. His instincts are amazing for someone so young, just look at Liverpools record of conceding goals with and without him and then try and tell me that that clown Maguire is Englands best…

    It’s hard to get credit when you’re surrounded by newish flash signings like Van Dijk, Alisson, a homegrown prodigy and a cheap signing who turned into a world beater but I tell you think and I absolutely mean it, my only concern about Gomez not becoming a world class player if his fitness. I think he’ll be alright there, I cant know this but I would not accept 100m for him, were it my call.

    you can take that as you want, that is the truth.

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    #131943
    Editor
    Keymaster

    Really is all about opinions. Personally wouldn’t swap Gomez for Maguire but each to their own. Thought he looked very poor vs City. Still rate him though and think he’ll only get better.

    One interesting aspect Maguire gets little credit for is his ability to influence things further up the pitch

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    #131945
    threeps
    Participant

    My argument against both the Maguire and Van Bissaka signings were they are not suited to a top team who you would expect to play an attacking high line. Maguire has the acceleration and turning circle of the QE2 but is good at attacking the ball when it is in front of him. Van Bissaka very rarely get beaten but offers next to nothing going forward. If someone argues against this I can show you the stats for the season where he lags so far behind top full backs when it comes to chance creation or successful crosses. In fact he lags behind Max Arrons, a youngster playing for a relegated team. A team like Utd shouldn’t be happy with defenders that can just defend, the game has progressed from that and top teams expect more.

    This is why I am confused as to what Ole is doing at Utd. They buy Fernandes who has been a big hit and is suited to fluid attacking play. But before that they buy the aforementioned duo who were probably at their level and suitable style at their previous clubs and Dan James who would probably suit a counter attacking relegation fodder team.

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    #131946
    sean the sailor
    Participant

    Ed, i always listen to people opinions on here as some really good football knowledge on here and you make some very valid points on maguire which I’ll take on board

    Gomez was dreadful v city but so was the whole team. Gomez has really been poor since the restart but then again so has the whole team

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    #131948
    threeps
    Participant

    Ed, according to the official Premier League website for stats, he has one assist and 2 chances created. One through ball. Vvd has 3 assists, 13 big chances and 11 through balls. I suggest “Statman Dave” needs to do a little more research!

    https://www.premierleague.com/players/9566/Harry-Maguire/stats?co=1&se=274

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    #131952
    Editor
    Keymaster

    Threeps, are you looking at “big chances created”? Here’s another (more reputable) source quoting the same as ol’ Dave.

    https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/seven-impressive-stats-that-highlight-harry-maguires-impact-at-man-utd/

    A highlight from this article:

    Maguire has kept 18 clean sheets in all competitions this season. That’s more than any other Premier League defender has managed.

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    #131954
    Editor
    Keymaster

    Threeps, AWB is definitely getting better going forwards but has a lot of improvement to do still. Whilst I agree that modern day fullbacks need to have more about them going forwards, I think too often their defending ability is ignored completely. Without Wan Bissaka completely closing out Sterling, Utd would have never beat City 3 times this season. It’s those big games (where we have a very good record) that help us close the gap on the teams above us. Out of interest, who do you think Utd could/should have got instead of both Maguire/AWB?

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    #131960
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Just on Maguire… He needs pace around him though… him and Gomez may well form the backbone of the England side over the next few years, and I think that could be quite a unique and durable defensive partnership. Gomez, Walker, Maguire… That’s fairly solid if its a back three… That is if we ever get Internationals back….

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    #131962
    threeps
    Participant

    For CB Skriniar from Inter might of been a good bet. Very highly rated and still fairly young. I agree with you regarding de Ligt, not as good as his hype suggests. Varane might of been difficult but would he cost more than what Utd paid for Maguire? Would he leave Madrid? Doubtful for a Europa League team (maybe this season?).

    RBL have a good couple of players, Upamecano would suit a high line team perfectly. Or Mukiele also from RBL could of covered both CB and RB positions, but maybe talking more about potential rather than ability with these 2.

    For RB if Utd still have the pulling power they once did then Kimmich would be my suggestion. Excellent footballer as demonstrated when he often plays in midfield also. Top RBs seem thin on the ground these days so can’t really think of any others! Maybe the ex-Madrid lad who was at BvB and now moved to Inter, Hakimi. Very attack minded and lightening quick with 9 goals and 10 assists for BvB last season.

    I have no idea if any of these would be obtainable, and as mentioned before I have no idea what style Ole is trying to implement. Maguire I think is just wrong for Utd, van Bissaka I can see that if he improves the attacking part of his game he would be a very good player. So perhaps I am being a little unkind to him.

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    • This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by threeps.
    #131964
    nine nine nine
    Moderator

    Sean, I like Gomez but imo he’s not as good as Maguire in the air and he doesn’t have his leadership qualities. He won’t be available for transfer but Gomez would make a good partner for Maguire at United.

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    #131965
    Editor
    Keymaster

    See, you’re falling into the trap that many fall into there Threeps. Slightly different discussion but by saying “if Utd still have the pulling power they once did then“, and talking about the likes of Varane and Kimmich, you’re suggesting Man Utd have once had the pulling power to rock up at Madrid/Bayern Munich and poach their best players.

    Utd have never been able to do that. Varane would have been high on Utd’s list of targets but there’s not a chance Real would have let him go for anything less than his release clause of 500mil euros. Again with Kimmich, Bayern NEVER sell their best players with the exception of probably Kroos, who only Real could have prised away anyway.

    Incredibly easy to say Utd should have gone in for Varane and Kimmich etc. The rest all might be good players but we’ve no idea how they would have fared in the PL. I always remember there being tons of hype around Otamendi. I was gutted Utd didn’t get him. Similarly when we didn’t get Renato Sanches. De Ligt another example of one a player abroad who was supposedly the answer to Utd’s problems. None of those would get in Utd’s side now.

    I’m not saying any of your suggestions are wrong, just that it’s not always as simple as saying Utd should have got someone better.

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    #131966
    sean the sailor
    Participant

    Gomez is 22 nine but fair pints mate

    For me Gomez is much more awake if what’s going on around him. He’s quicker, he can play further up the pitch and his anticipation of situations is up there with vvd.

    Still so young and will only get better in my opinion

    Up into the restart in 25 ganes vvd abd Gomez had only conceded 7 goals .

    I’d have a fully fit Matip over maguire

    A fully fit abd in form rudiger aswell over maguire

    None of these are gettable but I rate them better then the most exspensive defender in the world

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    #131967
    sean the sailor
    Participant

    Never got the hype about de ligt

    Still so young but he’s been very disappointing

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    #131968
    nine nine nine
    Moderator

    Mak, Van Dijk is the No 5 at Liverpool and Gomez plays alongside him Maguire is the No 5 at United and for England and Gomez plays alongside him.

    As I said above Maguire is better aerially than Gomez and more of a leader than Gomez that’s not knocking Gomez because I like him he reads the game well he’s got pace and he’s the perfect partner for Maguire for England where Maguire is currently the best No 5 we have.

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