20th October 2019 at 4:04 pm #50504
CM, personally I think the best solution would be to just ditch it, but that isn’t going to happen unfortunately.
What we need is consistency, ideally across the league but firstly in each individual game.
So for individual games, all decisions that are reviewed to be reviewed pitch side by the ref, he and he alone should decide if he wants to review a decision he has given, an independent ref to tell him to review something he has not seen as opposed to not given (off the ball incidents) Goals to still be reviewed if the ref wants to, and offsides to be reviewed for a clear and obvious error, not the stupid margins that we see now that cannot be done to that accuracy as it’s only a guess when the ball has started to move forward.
….Pagan20th October 2019 at 11:48 pm #50603
VAR isn’t the problem. It’s the people behind it.
Mane’s goal in slow motion actually shows he chests the ball down into his path.
And Origi was fouled.
On top of that, Martin Atkinson was the Ref lol – so it couldn’t turn out Sweeter!21st October 2019 at 5:56 am #50604
Nil you are not wrong regarding the people behind VAR, that is where the problem lies. I read somewhere that the VAR assistant refs are actual refs belonging to the same organisation as the match officials. The problem is, they are not Premier League refs as there are not enough to be spared. So you have these lesser ranked refs having to make decisions against their superior colleagues which I believe they are too scared to contradict them. I’m not just talking about yesterdays game Utd vs Liverpool, there’s been many occasions this season when even as a neutral you are left shaking your head as a clear and obvious error fails to be overturned. (not seen all the games this weekend but heard there were a fair few contentious decisions!)
A couple of interesting quotes coming from the Utd Liverpool game:
‘Firstly, the on-field referee didn’t think it was a foul and VAR checked/decided that it wasn’t a clear and obvious error to not award the foul,’ the PGMOL told Sky Sports. ‘Secondly, VAR isn’t re-refereeing matches, there is contact but VAR was comfortable it wasn’t enough to disallow the goal.’
Klopp said: ‘Mr Atkinson let the game run I’m sure because there is VAR. For me it was a clear foul.’
Are VAR and the refs leaving it to each other to make decisions?21st October 2019 at 9:49 am #50617
3ps, that’s it. Completely agree.
I’d like somebody either ‘neutral’ to review VAR or the Match Ref himself to make him realise well actually, he got it wrong.
There’s a correlation though with this and the Home team getting decisions their own way.21st October 2019 at 12:57 pm #50648
threeps, maybe the VAR Referee should be named just like the match Referee is named.
I agree there needs to be a quality Referee as the VAR.
When I’ve heard certain decisions refered to re VAR on TV it’s been said for instance that Andre Mariner is the VAR but you’re right there just can’t be enough top Referee’s to referee the games and to be the VAR at the same time x the number of PL games. Although yesterday for the United v Liverpool game I suspect it was a recognised Referee as the VAR as it was the only game going on.
The clear and obvious error always gives the VAR the get out and they are reluctant to overturn the match Referee’s decisions that’s what happend with the Origi incident imo and Origi’s exaggeration probably worked against the VAR giving that decision.
I understand there’s a big meeting in Europe this week to review VAR and how it’s working across all football and something might come out of that.
ps I thought it was a foul.😊
21st October 2019 at 1:02 pm #50650
- This reply was modified 3 weeks, 3 days ago by nine nine nine.
……..VAR clearly showed that the ball hit Mane’s hand so the goal was quite rightly ruled out.
21st October 2019 at 1:14 pm #50653
- This reply was modified 3 weeks, 3 days ago by nine nine nine.
“Although yesterday for the United v Liverpool game I suspect it was a recognised Referee as the VAR as it was the only game going on.”
It was David Coote assisted by Marc Perry.
Nope, I haven’t either.
VAR worked for Mane’s goal, whether the rules are right or not is a whole other debate…
21st October 2019 at 1:35 pm #50656
- This reply was modified 3 weeks, 3 days ago by threeps.
threeps, I’m surprised at that, David Coote is certainly not one of our most experienced Referee’s with just 3 PL games reffed this season to be selected as the VAR for such a big game I would have expected a much more experirnced Referee as the VAR and given that it was the only game that shouldn’t have been a problem.
Like you I’m really unsure about goals being ruled out for accidental handball but yesterday although it was purely accidental I think the accidental handball was a major contributory factor to Mane scoring the goal because it helped him control the ball prior to scoring and perhaps that’s the problem which has led to all accidental hand ball goals being ruled out.
It was definitely accidental handball though by Mane and the nonsensical part is that had the same thing happened to Lindelof it would have been a penalty.21st October 2019 at 5:23 pm #50676
I saw one angle that shows Mane chest the ball down. May I need to see more than one angle.
Even the tiniest of touches though, its penalized.
Not a problem if there is consistency in this going forward.⚽️21st October 2019 at 6:18 pm #50683
9s, you had a very experienced ref, he was the one running round in the middle blowing his whistle, or not as the case may be, he should have watched it himself and decided if he was happy with his initial decision….Pagan21st October 2019 at 6:25 pm #50684
Manes was handball correct decision
Origis was a clear foul incorrect decision
Kdb clear pen at weekend not given
Var is working well for some decisions but still so many crazy decisions21st October 2019 at 6:32 pm #50686
Sean, handball, yes by the current law, foul on Ogiri? My thoughts are it’s a contact sport and if all contact becomes a foul, then that’s no longer the case, I’m sure if I walked up behind you and gave you a little tap with my toe on your calf you’d not be best pleased, but I doubt you’d throw yourself to the floor. For me he was playing for a penalty by vastly exaggerating minimal contact. I’m also sure you’d know the difference between your left calf and right ankle…..Pagan21st October 2019 at 6:52 pm #50687
Chucky McChuckfaceParticipant428 pts
I don’t there is any room to doubt the Mane handball, stupid rule and perhaps very harsh, but it did touch his hand (intent doesn’t matter these days) so it pretty much is black and white. We can argue about the rule, but there is nothing to argue about the decision that was made.
As for the Origi “foul”, I’m with Peggy on this for pretty much all the reasons mentioned above, and very similar to what I’ve already mentioned in other comments about it today. If you start giving fouls for that then you might as well make it a non-contact sport. Touch another player, then it’s a foul… then it will be black and white… nobody can argue about it and then the game is dead.21st October 2019 at 7:47 pm #50688
For me it’s a clear foul coming in from behind pagan. Every time I see it, the more clear cut is. You see frees given for much less
We don’t agree. That’s fine mate
Totally over acted mate but a foul in my few especially because of some of the soft frees Atkinson was giving utd21st October 2019 at 7:50 pm #50691
Also pagan, it wasn’t anywhere near the penalty area. On another note why did Atkinson stop the game for James been on the deck but not for Origi?
Very inconsistent and he was absolutely dreadful but we never get anything off him.
Ole called him
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