Home Community General Football Is VAR a blessing or a curse to the game?

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  • #49267
    steveosnakeeyesteveosnakeeye
    Participant

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/the-premier-leagues-use-of-var-prevents-it-from-providing-what-it-can-do-best-consistency/ar-AAIg4ax?ocid=spartanntp

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    #49286
    The Oracle
    Participant

    VAR is fine, the way humans interpret it leaves a lot to be desired. What worries me is officials now know they have a get out of jail card when they mess up. Canโ€™t see Harry Maguire standing in front of you playing Abameyang onside by 3 yards so you put your flag up because itโ€™s at Old Trafford. VAR corrected the error and the correct decision is given

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    #49651
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    VAR has opened up more can of worms. Mane went down easily, but there was contact, yet about a month ago Martial was was being held by a player, which resulted in him losing his balance before just before he took his shot and that was deemed not enough contact for him to go down. Dermot Gallagher was saying the Martial incident was correct by the ref, but a few are saying the Mane incident was correct too. So what is deemed not enough contact because if you compare the 2, there was a lot more contact in the Martial incident in comparison to the Mane incident?

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    #49654
    nine nine nine
    Moderator

    cm,I’m not singling anyone out here because we all have them but the game needs retrospective bans for diving judged on a Monday until we get that players will continue to dive.

    Implement that and within 6 months diving would be almost eliminated.

    VAR imo would never have turned the Mane penalty down because it would have made the Ref look bad but equally had it not been given by the Ref and been the subject of a VAR review I doubt it would have been given.

    The problem with VAR is that offsides aside which are pretty specific if not currently a bit too pedantic with centimetre offside decisions it’s still just down to the human judgement of the Video Referee.

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    #49656
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Agree with you Nine. One issue I have had with that 1 offside call last Monday was the linesman putting his flag up when he did. It was a obvious error my linesman and Aubameyang was clearly onside, the linesman should have waited till the ball was in the back of the net before doing so. Thats how it was done during the previous world cup. A few United players saw the flag and stopped running.

    Not saying it would have made a difference, yet in a different game and different situation where the player could have tracked back and blocked the shot, yet he didn’t because he thought the player was offside due to the linesman flag, it would make a difference. This is 1 of the areas where VAR is clearly not working.

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    #49659
    nine nine nine
    Moderator

    cm, I agree mate the linesman got that wrong but should we blame VAR for his error ?

    Robot Linesmen pre programmed and that problems solved.?

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    #49666
    sean the sailor
    Participant

    Agree cm. Itโ€™s inconsistent calls. Look at the shirt pulling at set plays. Itโ€™s still going on and city and Liverpool have had clear pens not given recently.

    Saw the material incident and it was a pen

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    #49673
    Mikus
    Participant

    For me, the refs have got to start using the pitch side monitor to check their decision themselves so there’s no damage done to their integrity if they then change the decision. At the moment, the VAR ref does not want to disrespect the on pitch ref so they hide behind the “clear and obvious” line so relieve them from having to overturn a decision.

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    #50499
    Chelsea.manChelsea.man
    Participant

    VAR seems to be worsening by the day. more errors that it was supposed to solve exist. i think it’s high time that people are trained who are independent from the current set up.

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    #50503
    nine nine nine
    Moderator

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again it’s not VAR at fault it’s human error.

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    #50504
    PaganPagan
    Participant

    CM, personally I think the best solution would be to just ditch it, but that isnโ€™t going to happen unfortunately.

    What we need is consistency, ideally across the league but firstly in each individual game.

    So for individual games, all decisions that are reviewed to be reviewed pitch side by the ref, he and he alone should decide if he wants to review a decision he has given, an independent ref to tell him to review something he has not seen as opposed to not given (off the ball incidents) Goals to still be reviewed if the ref wants to, and offsides to be reviewed for a clear and obvious error, not the stupid margins that we see now that cannot be done to that accuracy as itโ€™s only a guess when the ball has started to move forward.

    ….Pagan

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    #50603
    Nike19Nike19
    Participant

    VAR isn’t the problem. It’s the people behind it.

    Mane’s goal in slow motion actually shows he chests the ball down into his path.

    And Origi was fouled.

    On top of that, Martin Atkinson was the Ref lol – so it couldn’t turn out Sweeter!

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    #50604
    threepsthreeps
    Participant

    Nil you are not wrong regarding the people behind VAR, that is where the problem lies. I read somewhere that the VAR assistant refs are actual refs belonging to the same organisation as the match officials. The problem is, they are not Premier League refs as there are not enough to be spared. So you have these lesser ranked refs having to make decisions against their superior colleagues which I believe they are too scared to contradict them. I’m not just talking about yesterdays game Utd vs Liverpool, there’s been many occasions this season when even as a neutral you are left shaking your head as a clear and obvious error fails to be overturned. (not seen all the games this weekend but heard there were a fair few contentious decisions!)

    A couple of interesting quotes coming from the Utd Liverpool game:

    โ€˜Firstly, the on-field referee didnโ€™t think it was a foul and VAR checked/decided that it wasnโ€™t a clear and obvious error to not award the foul,โ€™ the PGMOL told Sky Sports. โ€˜Secondly, VAR isnโ€™t re-refereeing matches, there is contact but VAR was comfortable it wasnโ€™t enough to disallow the goal.โ€™

    Klopp said: โ€˜Mr Atkinson let the game run Iโ€™m sure because there is VAR. For me it was a clear foul.’

    Are VAR and the refs leaving it to each other to make decisions?

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    #50617
    Nike19Nike19
    Participant

    3ps, that’s it. Completely agree.

    I’d like somebody either ‘neutral’ to review VAR or the Match Ref himself to make him realise well actually, he got it wrong.

    There’s a correlation though with this and the Home team getting decisions their own way.

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    #50648
    nine nine nine
    Moderator

    threeps, maybe the VAR Referee should be named just like the match Referee is named.

    I agree there needs to be a quality Referee as the VAR.

    When I’ve heard certain decisions refered to re VAR on TV it’s been said for instance that Andre Mariner is the VAR but you’re right there just can’t be enough top Referee’s to referee the games and to be the VAR at the same time x the number of PL games. Although yesterday for the United v Liverpool game I suspect it was a recognised Referee as the VAR as it was the only game going on.

    The clear and obvious error always gives the VAR the get out and they are reluctant to overturn the match Referee’s decisions that’s what happend with the Origi incident imo and Origi’s exaggeration probably worked against the VAR giving that decision.

    I understand there’s a big meeting in Europe this week to review VAR and how it’s working across all football and something might come out of that.

    ps I thought it was a foul.?

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    #50650
    nine nine nine
    Moderator

    ……..VAR clearly showed that the ball hit Mane’s hand so the goal was quite rightly ruled out.

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    #50653
    threepsthreeps
    Participant

    “Although yesterday for the United v Liverpool game I suspect it was a recognised Referee as the VAR as it was the only game going on.”

    It was David Coote assisted by Marc Perry.

    Nope, I haven’t either.

    VAR worked for Mane’s goal, whether the rules are right or not is a whole other debate…

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    • This reply was modified 1 year, 1 month ago by threepsthreeps.
    #50656
    nine nine nine
    Moderator

    threeps, I’m surprised at that, David Coote is certainly not one of our most experienced Referee’s with just 3 PL games reffed this season to be selected as the VAR for such a big game I would have expected a much more experirnced Referee as the VAR and given that it was the only game that shouldn’t have been a problem.

    Like you I’m really unsure about goals being ruled out for accidental handball but yesterday although it was purely accidental I think the accidental handball was a major contributory factor to Mane scoring the goal because it helped him control the ball prior to scoring and perhaps that’s the problem which has led to all accidental hand ball goals being ruled out.

    It was definitely accidental handball though by Mane and the nonsensical part is that had the same thing happened to Lindelof it would have been a penalty.

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    #50676
    Nike19Nike19
    Participant

    I saw one angle that shows Mane chest the ball down. May I need to see more than one angle.

    Even the tiniest of touches though, its penalized.

    Not a problem if there is consistency in this going forward.โšฝ๏ธ

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    #50683
    PaganPagan
    Participant

    9s, you had a very experienced ref, he was the one running round in the middle blowing his whistle, or not as the case may be, he should have watched it himself and decided if he was happy with his initial decision….Pagan

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