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“Mak, let’s not go there again.
I’ve said on numerous occasions why I understand Liverpool fans not agreeing the title is won even today. ”
Ok but don’t put me there by saying it’s been done a long time!!! :PPPP
No seriously though, ya, It’s up to the boys who actually matter to refuse to accept it until it’s complete. Oooff I’m just going to stay away from the invincible talk for now though. I have made a pretty big leap ,in terms of adjustment of attitude today. There’s no way in hell I’m going to start stretching things. I mean, besides saying that it would be amazing and also highly unlikely.
I just want to win the damn thing though TBH. I’d take the CL with a scrappy PL, over an incredible record in the Pl only. That’s me though.
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Indeed Nine, though Carra should have fired back after Keane brought up Klopp’s first season, that Klopp still got to two finals in that season, so there were clear signs of a galvanising effect even with a poor set of players. Can Solksjaer demonstrate the same sort of thing? Not for me.
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Mikus, the key point of the discussion though was giving Managers and specifically Ole time.
I can understand United fans who are concerned about Ole but I think he probably deserves the Summer transfer market and next season to see if he can get United going in the right direction.
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Mak. I was just giving my own personal opinion mate certainly wasn’t including you in it.
The main point of the post though was whether Liverpool could go the whole season unbeaten._____________________________
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I havent seen the post match stuff but it’s a bit sharp to be talking about Klopp’s losses in finals. Are they suggesting that his team will bottle it? I tell you, it’s felt all season that sky and all other fans have been trying to set this up.
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Really bad luck for Rashford with a double stress fracture of the back.
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Mak, the main thrust of the discussion was centred around Ole and giving Managers more time. The unanimous view of the panel was that Liverpool won’t slip now.
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Mak, Keane said that because Klopp also struggled in his first season at Liverpool, Solksjaer deserved more time too. I said that Carra should have responded by reminding Keane that Klopp got to two finals in his first season – which was a positive about Klopp because he was clearly having an immediate impact on the club. Nine, I personally think that would have been a relevant point in the discussion – unless Solksjaer gets to some cup finals this season or wins something, what positive signs are there that he’s making a significant impact at the club and so deserves more time?
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I don’t think ole has the pedigree to succeed at utd but give him time as they have sacked to many managers recently
You look at that team today and it’s so light. Matic and perrira should not be starting games.
They badly need more quality players in.
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Congrats to the Pool fans on here. Never in doubt.
Absolutely crazy that this Utd side are still in contention for 4th. Really shows how bad everyone else has been.
Ole has zero chance of succeeding at Utd. He just has no clue what he’s doing unfortunately. Shame really as I like the guy but he’s clueless.
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Another very dominant display today, and for the first time the crowd were singing ‘We’re gonna win the league’. For me City’s result yesterday and our result today has sealed it 100%.
The only thing that seems to be affecting Liverpool at the moment is boredom. It sounds really arrogant to say this, but against Spurs last week and today there were times we were so much in control it was emabarrassing and I honestly think the players got a little bored it was so easy. But at only 1-0 both last week and in the closing stages today we could have conceded. We just need to take our chances better. I’ve not seen any TV re-runs, so I can only comment on what I saw live in real time, and Mo’s miss in the 2nd half looked a real horror miss. But hey…we’ve won the league – there is no way we are losing it from here.
As for the disallowed goal, again only having seen it live, I never thought it would be given. It just didn’t ever look as though it would get past VAR, and I was surprised the ref didn’t blow himself. MOTD later will be fun. Oh my God, I’m so chuffed. Over half my life since I last saw us win the thing, and now my kids will get to experience it as well. My son was with me at the game today, and he was just buzzing. Just want to take Arsenal’s invincible record now and City’s points total record, but maybe that’s just being greedy! Sorry to all for going on about it – maybe we should keep it to the Liverpool thread – cos we will be invincible, unbeatable and believe me, unbearable!
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Ed, agree with you re the challenge for 4th place and I think it’s ultimately going to come down to who proves themselves to be the best of the worst.?
I thought Keane made some good points about the chopping and changing of Managers and not just at United and about giving Managers more time.
All fans want a quick fix Chelsea fans included but I think we have to be realistic Pep failed in his first season and it took Klopp three years to get Liverpool to where they are now and for all Clubs being successful in the transfer market probably remains the key.
I completely understand the views of you and other United fans on Ole but I also understand what Keane was arguing for and I suspect there’s some truth on both sides of the argument time will tell how it all maps out. Cheers 9’s
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Sorry HT, we’ve won nothing yet and I’m suprised you’ve called it mate especially after all the times we’ve been burned
Maybe I’m finding it to hard to believe ? but there is no way I tvibk it’s over until we really can’t be caught
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“Carra should have responded by reminding Keane that Klopp got to two finals in his first season – which was a positive about Klopp”
This is a kinda annoying thing about the media. There is a clear disparity in terms of proven quality between Ole and Klopp and you don’t have to go back to cup finals that Klopp has gone to. You don;t have to go through the absolutely hilarious records he’s created at the club. You don’t need to touch what he’s ever done here, he’s a ****ing Bundesliga champions x2 and before he ever got here, he brought an underdog team to the CL final. I’ve a lot of respect for Roy but if he’s challenging the credentials of Jurgen Klopp, he’s a fucking idiot.
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To be fair Mak, Keane did mention Klopp’s credentials in Germany and how Dortmund are a big club. My point in all this was that he was stressing how it took Klopp time to get things right, particularly in his first season at Liverpool. He then argued the same could be true for Solksjaer at Man Utd in his early days and that he needs time. But for me, as I mentioned above, Klopp got to two finals with a mediocre team in that first part season, so he was clearly having an immediate and significant impact. Whereas Solksjaer has been there for over 12 months now, and whilst you couldn’t expect him to be winning left, right and centre, you’d still expect to see signs of something coming together. But there’s not enough there for me to suggest that there is, and you’re still not quite sure which Man Utd are going to turn up, particularly vs the sides lower down the league. That’s not to say he’s been a complete disaster, but the 3-3 game vs Sheff Utd has summed them up this season. They can turn it on here and there, but that’s obviously not good enough for a club of their stature.
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“To be fair Mak, Keane did mention Klopp’s credentials in Germany and how Dortmund are a big club. ”
Fair enough man, I really only saw the tiniest clip of it. I don’t argue with the core logic that managers need time but the value of said manager is the actual only important property. The same thing that happened for Klopp could be true of Ole, as well as you or me. really, you have no idea that someone on this forum isn’t a CL manager but we could have a fair guess.
I don’t know what Keane went on to “remember”, via his ear-piece but I do remember the time when Klopp could not sort out our defence. Not with the players at his disposal. I remember the media asking if maybe his time was coming to an end, or words to that effect. I think they asked him. I’d say I remember this 100% but I’m 90%. I have a bad memory, so I leave a little for doubt. The pressure was definitely on. I think it was the season before Pep came over? That or maybe Pep’s first season in charge.
I couldn’t agree more with your position regards the 2 managers. I know Ed will remember me at the time, ranting like I was a Utd fan about Woodward and Ole before they offered him the position and also afterwards. It was the height of stupidity and this leads me to my problem with Roy Keane.
Roy Keane was brought on to Sky as a man who “asks the hard questions” but he doesn’t. He asks certain questions in a hard tone. It’s definitely not the same thing.
He’s sat there defending Ole, well why isn’t he asking about Woodward? It’s just a lot better to shout challenging statements at the Liverpool lad who never won the PL, well Roy… you didn’t win the CL, you watched the final like the rest of us.
Why isn’t Carra saying that?! … It’s pantomime. I do enjoy a good Liverpool V Utd legend argument like the rest of you but it could be a lot better. Like, are you tellin me that Carra has been sitting at home for 6 weeks, ever since Roy destroyed him live on TV and he hasn’t come up with this? I had this exact response within minutes.. ya no good for a rebuttal but still!
I’ve gone off the topic a bit and had a go at the integrity of the industry but it’s not too far off it cause it’s rare that you hear Woodward being mentioned and it’s so bloody obvious that he’s the main problem, right? Feel free to correct me if you think I’m wrong.
Woodward is a fool. Fool appoints unknown quantity. Fool probably gets to fire said manager and move on, as he’s done before. I mean just look at how Utd have been spending their money… A set of dice would do far better than this moron.
As for Keane, let his bitterness show. As for you HH, I wrote out a post earlier but I misclicked and kinda scrambled it a bit. I’ve had a few beers and I am kinda tired, so it didn’t occur to me that what i did was quite fixable and just closed it.
Anyway, in short. I agree that it is essentially over but rather than say 100%, I’ll say that it’s a high 90’s, with a small amount for freak scenarios.
We don’t all have to agree at the same time and if we can go on to beat Wolves next, maybe we will have a few new converts. I’ve not come to this decision in a fickle way like with previous seasons. Ok, I had marked out the Wolves game but then I didn’t really think City would drop points against Palace. They are a bogey team of course and you can always hope but, expect? no.
I do expect us to win the PL this season though because my dear Liverpool fans, for once, we far and away deserve it. We’re too far ahead now for a relatively poor City to catch. i say this with respect for them as a team who if they could get their mojo back, could definitely wipe most teams from here on… But they won’t. Evidence suggests that we will.
We’ll save the champagne but a solem nod towards the neutrals on here who’ve had to agonizingly put up with our “NOT YET! NOT YET!” routine. They understand why but it’s time, or it’s near time to get real. In my opinion anyway.
I’ll shut the F up now.
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HH, just want to comment on a couple of points you bring up. The Salah miss, on TV it looked as much as a horror as in real life! As the game went on and Utd upped the pressure I started to think that was the defining moment of the match, thankfully I was wrong. Regarding the disallowed goal, I was also very surprised the ref did not blow straight away, and when Firmino scored I didn’t celebrate as I knew it would be chalked off. VvD, whilst had his arms down, did jump into de Gea so a clear foul. Keepers are overly protected these days but not this incident. If VvD jumped just upwards and it was De Gea that jumped into him and then dropped it or couldn’t get to it then it shouldn’t be a foul.
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Liverpool giving Klopp time and City giving Pep time after so-so first seasons is in no way similar to Ole’s situation at Utd. Both Pep and Klopp:
1. Showed progress in the way the team played
2. Had very impressive managerial records in top leaguesOle has done neither of these. It’s not as simple as saying “Klopp wasn’t great in his first season so every manager should get time” in very much the same way people need to stop using the argument “well Pep had never had a top job before and he did alright didn’t he?” when talking up the next club legend as a potential suitor for the next manager. Picking out extremes which are very rare occurrences are not proof of the way things should be done. There are far too many examples of the opposite happening in similar situations.
You don’t just give managers time because “it’s the right thing to do”. I’m all for giving managers time where they’ve earned the right to get that time, either in something they’ve done at that club or a previous club. Moral high ground doesn’t fill trophy cabinets or, for that matter, bank accounts.
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saw a couple of responses to my rant about son and moura so thought I’d elaborate.
son has the ability to be brilliant but he always tries to do too much. often has the chance to get a shot away or put in a cross but he always looks to take on one more player. he has been very good for us but he just isn’t good enough to lead.
lucas moura will sadly go down in spurs history for his hat trick against ajax in the semi-final, which lead to the most disappointing performance I’ve ever seen in a final. that isn’t his fault as he was dropped for it, rightly or wrongly. he can sometimes look dangerous but has zero end product. he has pace to burn yet never takes anyone on. he can’t cross, he can’t shoot, he doesn’t really trackback, he doesn’t make good runs off the ball. 4 goals and two assists which are similar stats to van dijk. he regularly occupies the same space as other players. there are so many weaknesses in this spurs team and i am not pinning the blame on him, but he brings nothing to the cause.
the whole spurs set up is a mess right now. not one player in the team is improving. that isn’t mourinho’s fault. it’s down to poch and levy and our scouting system.
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Ed, all true but didn’t David Moyes deserve more than 10 months based on his managerial record and didn’t Jose deserve a bit more time to sort out the problems at United considering what he had achieved in his career and the fact he took a poor United team to second place and won two Cups too.
The main thrust of the discussion between Carragher and Keane for those that didn’t see it was driven by Carragher,centred around United and was mainly about the case for Managers being given time.
In the case of Ole you’re right that might not be the right thing to do but Moyes, LVG, Jose all gone and Ole potentially too in less than 7 years suggests there’s something to Keane’s pov. Especially when there’s no guarantees with the likes of Allegri or Pochettino either.
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