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A few thoughts.
How bad is the problem of diving in the grand scheme of things in the PL now? Had the recent incidents with high profile players like Salah and Kane not happened how many other incidents can people think of? I think because it’s an emotive subject for some fans, there is a huge reaction whenever it happens which magnifies a problem that perhaps isn’t as bad as it is made out to be.
Secondly, what to do about the actual incidents of diving? Well if you start becoming too stern you will inevitably create other injustices – i.e. when a person was genuinely fouled but was deemed to have dived because of another opinion. Objectively it can be a difficult call. If a player has a lot of momentum it won’t take much to bring them down. VAR is not a silver bullet. Even though more time may be given to make a decision, the pressure will be on to get the game back moving as quickly as possible. You could start to get confirmation bias whereby if the ref already thinks it’s a dive they may look for something small which will tip the decision that way in their mind. I may partly be playing devils advocate here, but I’m just pointing out the alternative consequences. I think unless the dive is extremely theatrical whilst stood still (like Salah’s the other day) there’s not really much you can do if you don’t want to risk other injustices alluded to above.
Thirdly, it’s said all fans hate diving. I don’t doubt many do hate diving. But if you followed up a poll to fans with the follow up question “if your player cheated but it meant you won a cup should the match be replayed?” How many fans would think it should in that case? If it wasn’t a majority, then they couldn’t really hate diving that much. If you are an absolute purist about hating diving, you’d want the game replayed no matter if other teams were doing it.
Finally, what you will find with VAR will be more penalties given for defenders pulling the attacker’s shirts or fouling when the striker *did* stay on their feet. So, in this regard, VAR may help promote more of a culture for attackers to stay on their feet *if* they know an attempted foul will get punished on appeal – I think that will certainly apply to shirt pullers anyway. But for more general attempted fouls, you would still be making a subjective call that a foul *had* been committed.
Remember with these things that whilst you may solve some problems, you may simply create others.
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Mikus, it doesn’t take much to bring a player down, well it does in rugby, and it does in Sunday morning footy on the parks. In either of those examples if you fell to the floor with the minimal contact we’re now seeing you’d be laughed off the pitch or cause a riot….Pagan
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But if you followed up a poll to fans with the follow up question “if your player cheated but it meant you won a cup should the match be replayed?”
I’ll tell you my answer, cyber chum, if one of my boys does it, I’d be bloody annoyed but I wouldn’t want the match replayed. Why? Because, unfortunately in this day and age, I know damn well if the boot was on the other foot, the other team’s fans would bloody well take it too because the other teams players would bloody do it too!!
The chance of curing this particular disease was over the minute we started to hear pundits saying things like “he was entitled to go down there” or “well, contact was made”…
Don’t matter how much we don’t like it, but it’s now part of the game and it’s not going away!
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Good point on the shirt pulling – holding a player too and sort of wresting with him.
Remember seeing Heskey do this on Danny Murphy’s Free Kick for us at Old Trafford (Year 2000). What he did was place himself in the middle to break the United wall that opened up the Gap.
I would suspect for many decades, Managers have stressed in the Dressing room defenders to really get into the opposition, especially if they’re technically gifted and clinical. They’ll take their chances on pulling a shirt, wrestling or impeding the attacker player knowing that they stand a 50/50 chance in getting away with it during Real Time.
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Retrospective ban is one way to punish players that do it. Might be some merit in what Chucky said on another thread, that is a penalty is only given if it’s stopped a definite goal attempt or something along those lines.
It’s not hard to see when a player goes down grabbing his leg & rolling around like he’s in that much pain he’s gunna pass out, then you see the replay and a defender bumped hips with him. Or when they claimed to be tripped and fall forward whilst throwing their head back, it’s unnatural. In these cases, 2 week suspension. Somethings got to change, it’s the biggest blight on the game IMO._____________________________
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Pagan, difference in Rugby is your trying to hide any pain your in as you don’t want the opposition to see you as a weak link.
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Funny how some players like Salah, Lukuka as 2 example propose to be men of huge faith and yet they still cheat. That’s much worse than a cheater who is an atheist.
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Not sure this is a discussion that needs to go down the faith/religion route to be honest.
My opinion, all players cheat. And I mean all, every single one of them in the premier league. Whether it’s a blatant dive for a pen, waving an imaginary card at the ref or holding their face when someone brushed against their arm, or simply claiming a throw in knowing it them last, to me it’s all cheating.
But are we all just hypocrites that just use the cheat term as a form of tribal attacks against each other? How many times have we claimed a corner either playing or watching knowing it obviously wasn’t? I know I have. We all love to say a rival player is a cheat but we celebrate our own playing “winning” a penalty by foul means. I saw on another thread Adlab list players from other teams that cheat yet omitted city players, saying Sterling sometimes goes down easily! Classic example of tribalism blindness.
I can live with what we have in the Premier League. It’s far from perfect but it’s gone too far to go back. But what I don’t want to see is what you get from players like Neymar, Ramos, Pepe etc, constant cheating to gain whatever advantage they can. I said after the PSG vs LFC game if that was the way football is heading then I will walk away from it. If a European super league ever happens I fear this will be the norm.
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Three Ps
Mentioned Ramos in another thread, that’s why I don’t read too deep into the subject in trying to find as solution. Besides, as far as forums/message boards go, it’s been exercised so many times and Associations out there have yet to come up with a resolution.
Maybe VAR next season could invest into it.
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The thing is Nil, if they use VAR to review acts of cheating on say PSG vs Real the game would go on for about a day and a half!
I would like to see more retrospective action, but not just with Tom Daley dives, but any form of cheating. So yes, Ramos or Neymar, give them with match bans for bringing the game into disrepute. Sadly this won’t happen however, it’s not in the authorities interest to ban all these top players.
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Three Ps,
Sort of get where you’re coming from on the implications and the bigger picture. I.e. commerce and fans paying good money to watch their favourite Stars. A 3 Match ban e.g. would impact that. I wonder then where Officials are mindful of that and therefore reluctant to take any hard action.
I have heard fans mention a points ban.
I think clubs and their Managers should be warned formally/officially. There shouldn’t really be any favourable treatment. They should be punished just like anybody else or at least be warned about their misdemeanours.
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If a player is caught diving on a regular basis then retrospectively the rules allow for that player to be banned and if we want to see diving stopped that is what should happen.
Once bans start taking effect diving will disappear.
Calling players out for diving on football forums just ends in silly tit for tats.
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But it is fun, goldie… 🙂
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Nine, no one has been calling any player out, well except for yourself with Salah on the first page. We are discussing possible future actions, consequences and where it all might end up.
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Yeah, blame the puppy… 🙂
Every player cheats, some just have more dramatic outcome on the game than others…
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The very simple solution to this one would be for the referees to compile a list of incidents where Sterling has dived (and include everybody else who dives for that matter)… that should at least shut up the players/managers, perhaps even guilt them all into doing something about it…
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threeps, in the words of John McEnroe “you can not be serious”.?
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……..As I said earlier hand out retrospective bans and it will all but disappear from the game within months.
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What’s the guy supposed to do (at times) if he’s surrounded by 2/3 players all the time? I get Salah, but maybe what he did on Saturday could have been avoided. Now the poor guy lands himself a reputation.
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What’s the guy supposed to do (at times) if he’s surrounded by 2/3 players all the time?
Nil, cyber chum, are you trying to suggest it’s unfair when defenders mark a player in the penalty box, leaving him no other choice but to fall over??
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