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  • #169331
    Mikus
    Participant

    Nine, when the Hong Kong flu came to this country in the late 1960s killing an estimated 80,000 people – do you think it should have locked-down instead?

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    #169334
    nine nine nine
    Moderator

    Mikus,but according to the well respected medical journal the Lancet Hong Kong Flu didn’t kill anything like 80,000 people in the UK it killed circa 30,000 and this is not about what previous Pandemic was or wasn’t more dangerous than this one to the UK and the World or how it was managed in 1968 it’s about getting control of this virus in the here and now and most major Governments utilising advice from their scientists are treating this Pandemic very very seriously and in similar ways and rightly so imo.

    If that’s not the way you see it that’s fine we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

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    #169337
    Mikus
    Participant

    And the way deaths have been recorded as “covid” deaths in this country are undoubtedly inflated when the patient had several other significant underlying conditions. We’ve known early on that that whilst this is a nasty virus, this isn’t of the order of the Spanish flu which also killed the young & healthy in large numbers. We knew early on who the risk groups were and we could have better protected them rather than destroying the whole country economically which will cost many lives in the future. So the response has been disproportionate to the risk. Also, the panic from the government actually exacerbated the problem when hospital patients were hurriedly put in care homes without being tested. And the idea a government can “control a virus” is I think rather ridiculous when it’s out there spreading. Lockdowns merely delay the spread whilst destroying livelihoods and how people put food on the table. It’s easy to advocate lockdowns if you’re immune to such things.

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    #169339
    sean the sailor
    Participant

    Well at some stage nine, we need to learn to live with it and not yo yo lockdowns mate. What happens after these round of lockdowns?

    Business open back up then shut again?

    This is going to have a brutal effect on the youth of today. No doubt more austerity is around the corner. Peopleโ€™s livelihoods being deStroyed etc . Business closing all the time. People losing their homes. Suicide is rampant now. Domestic abuse is at an all time high

    When does it stop? Our government are a joke and so are the English. Absolute morons .

    Pubs arenโ€™t even shut in England. The substantial meal was done in Ireland and itโ€™s a joke.

    People are getting restless. This is very scary timeโ€™s and they canโ€™t keep shutting down until we find a vaccine. If it means wearing masks on the street so be it but the works had to move forward after these lockdowns imo mate. I know easier says and done . These guys are paid ridiculous money so they need to do something

    Whatโ€™s the exit strategy? People supporting governments because they voted for them. Itโ€™s an absolute mess and the people of Ireland donโ€™t support or trust the people running this country .

    Itโ€™s one massive contradiction with no plan to move forward.

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    #169341
    nine nine nine
    Moderator

    Sean, I’m not supporting the Government because I voted for them if I even did vote for them in fact I’m very critical of the Government re the Coronavirus.

    I’ve got a serious illness and I follow my Consultant’s advice because she’s the expert you don’t ask an expert for their advice and then ignore it.

    There is no easy path out if this for any Country and it’s very unpleasant and damaging all round but the Scientists are the experts and I think it makes sense to follow their advice.

    I understand your frustrations with what’s happening in Ireland but your Government is just trying to do what they think is the best thing for Ireland and what they are doing isn’t too different to what’s happening in most other major European Countries. There are no easy solutions Sean.

    We won’t begin to come out of this until we get a vaccine that works imo no matter which country you live in. Cheers 9’s

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    #169343
    sean the sailor
    Participant

    Sorry nine mate wasnโ€™t having go at you mate, I was talking more about my own people supporting the government

    The WHO are asking for countries not to lockdown .

    Mikius, a young lad 17 died of heary failure and the headlines on a newspaper today say he was the youngest victim of c19. His dad, who is mourning his sons death said that is completely untrue and it was heart failure and not Covid

    Also nine I believe the government are doing what they think is best but itโ€™s not working. So called experts saying one thing one day then totally contradicting themselves the next

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    #169344
    sean the sailor
    Participant

    Totally understand about your Iโ€™ll was aswell mate. My own dad is very vulnerable and wonโ€™t leave the house and I donโ€™t come in

    I can understand the anxiety but we have to do something to move on or we be tecoerbing for decades

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    #169346
    Mikus
    Participant

    Sean, alas it is very dispiriting to see the media using such tragedies to serve an agenda for them. As for experts, there is actually much disagreement between them in terms of how to move forwards, but the conformist mainstream media has not given the dissent much of a voice and instead branded them idiots or conspiracy theorists.

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    #169347
    maverick1973maverick1973
    Participant

    Football too,has to be stopped,one would think…..

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    #169348
    maverick1973maverick1973
    Participant

    Official data for the Influenza pandemic of 1968/69 for the UK shows just over 30k deaths.

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    #169349
    Nike19Nike19
    Participant

    The impact on day-to-day domestic living is a strain when there’s restrictions. I’ve had to spend time phoning companies for example to arrange appointments and sort out domestics. Thankfully, I’ve not had to wait too long for somebody on the other end of the phone to answer and deal with me.

    It’s the fear too. The Mainstream Media certainly don’t help the cause.

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    #169354
    Mikus
    Participant

    Mav, the UK excess attributable Hong Kong death toll in this document is 80,000 possibly because it includes both waves which I believe killed around 30-40,000 each.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/869827/Coronavirus_action_plan_-_a_guide_to_what_you_can_expect_across_the_UK.pdf

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    #169357
    nine nine nine
    Moderator

    No worries Sean it’s understandable that we all see things slightly differently with such a complex issue.

    If there was an easy route out of all this someone cleverer than all of us on here would have identified it already sadly I think we’re stuck with where we are and all the uncertainty until we manage to find a vaccine.

    Sorry to hear about your Dad being cut off from the family is really hard. Take care. Cheers 9’s

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    #169359
    sean the sailor
    Participant

    No worries nine mate. Your a proper gent mate.

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    #169362
    PaganPagan
    Participant

    9, glad to hear youโ€™re following what your consultant advises, however itโ€™s not that easy for the government, they have experts in disease, mental Heath, the economy etc. all giving advice in their field of expertise, all probably contradicting each other. Not really sure anyone has got anywhere near getting it right in a country like the UK…Pagan

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    #169363
    Nike19Nike19
    Participant

    Well said Nine. With everything going on, I think we’re all trying to deal with it the best we can.

    We’re blessed to have this forum where many of us have known each other for a fair amount of years to exchange communication.

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    #169374
    Brian blue
    Participant

    Always comes back to the same problem….people….if, from the outset they had followed the rules it would not have happened so much as to day, at least a measure of control. I cannot believe some of the reports and pictures I have been looking at. We are now in a very serious situation with just about every other country, Ley us take full lock down because without it this will grow and grow and nobody has an answer. The vaccine is a long way off and when it appears it will be “on trial” because there has been no period to check the after effects. I do not want a vaccine that has not been time test5ed for such effects, the risk is greater than the potential cure..Iy would also help the moral of the peop;e if all strands of the media stopped the continued onslaught of bad news and start putting some good news on for a change

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    #169380
    threepsthreeps
    Participant

    I read an interesting article from the BBC (cant find it now) saying that Covid 19 could be with us in some form for many years, and that a vaccine is not the kill switch for the virus. Think about it, we have had flu vaccine for many years yet thousands still die each year from flu but still we got on with our lives without much concern.

    I am of the strong opinion that all these lockdowns will cause more harm than good. We need to protect the vulnerable, but really who cares if a healthy 25 year old gets it? As long as that 25 year doesn’t visit granny then what’s the problem? He or she will actually build up a tolerance to the virus and that will help in the long run. Some young people have died but young people die all every day. I bet more young people have died from a nut allergy since the start of the year than Covid yet we don’t all get into a flap when we see an unopened packet of KP nuts!

    We need to protect economies, we need to secure jobs, we need to consider the severe impact lockdowns have on mental health. Keep the kids in school, keep all businesses open and concentrate on protecting the vulnerable by isolating them. Spend whatever is in the pot helping those that really need it to keep the health services from buckling under the strain and let everyone else go out and keep the economy ticking over.

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    #169381
    Mikus
    Participant

    Perhaps if the government had not panicked throughout the crisis, and treated people like adults, they would have been more responsive. But if you keep making up a raft of changing rules on the hoof and treat people like children and with contempt for a virus that isn’t as serious as was made out, you can’t be surprised if the public lose trust in the government. Meanwhile experts who have been closer to the mark than the official ones have been sidelined and smeared and treated as pariahs for not conforming to the official line. We are now bringing in measures that will further destroy livelihoods that will never come back – once a business, built on a huge amount of hard work & risk goes bust, it goes bust. And this is what puts food on the table and pays for public services like the NHS. No amount of borrowed money will save the business once it’s gone. The government is panicking again based on fear, tunnel vision and unproven worst case assumptions, and it is bringing in totalitarian measures based on such things. That is an extreme position to take. A more intelligent and balanced response would be to increase capacity in hot spots and better shield hospitals, where in the north west at one point, 25% of cases were actually being caught in hospitals, which is a not insignificant amount. But good luck finding this information on the main stream media. I now fear the civil unrest to come, because you can’t keep bringing in measures like this and not expect some kind of reaction.

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    #169382
    maverick1973maverick1973
    Participant

    3ps-I agree completely mate,we simply have to learn to live with it,otherwise lives will be ruined in hundreds of millions,if not billions worldwide.Yes some measures will have to be implemented and forced,but the vast majority of people will have to go on working,otherwise civil unrest will follow very soon as people need to work to be able to eat and live.

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