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Nine raised a good pint earlier about the spurs job being Jose’s toughest ever test. This will really show us how good jose is. He’s not going to have the money he has had at other clubs. He’s going to have to coach and make players better but isn’t that what a coaches job is in the first place?
It just can’t be all about spending money and buying the best players. I’ve written jose off but maybe I was being a bit harsh as spurs finished the season really well and improved in a lot of areas
I highly rate pep. His vision of football and how it should be played is legendary now especially after his Barcalona team but would pep have done what klopp did at Mainz, Dortmund and Liverpool?
Pep is the best manager in the works in my opinion but he’s always had the best teams, the best players and money to spend . I’m not having a go. My point is when does it get to a stage that you just stop spending money and coach what you have?make players better etc .
Just a thought. Be really interesting to see how jose gets on now as he has no cash to really spend
Great deal for hoiberg though. Some deal to get him for 3 m as no way is he only 15m and kwp 12m
Hoiberg is A very good expierenced player
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The key aspect of management/coaching, regardless of the money at your disposal, is instilling a strong winning mentality. Jose is still very much capable of that which is why he’s still a top manager for me. Liverpool under Klopp in the season just gone have arguably been more Mourinho like – all players very well drilled, organised and fighting for each other, constantly finding a way to edge games out. Guardiola it’s said has raised the bar in terms of his attacking football, and I don’t doubt he has. But don’t forget Jose won the league with 95 points with Chelsea in 2005, which ain’t far off some of the totals City and Liverpool have had in recent seasons, so I’m not sure this “Jose is outdated” stacks up. Jose still has all the necessary attributes to win the big prizes, though Spurs will still have to buy well. I also think Gary Neville also mentioned that finishing 2nd with Utd with that squad some years back was one of his best achievements and I think he was probably right.
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I can only speak of what we see at City regarding Pep, he is very much a coach first and although he has substantial back room staff support, you still have to put the foundations in. Nobody is perfect, could he do it without the resources….I believe he could because of his desire for the game he wants to play. There are so many players, good ones to that give him credit for improving them, you do not do this sat at a desk or delegating the many pillars of his foundation. He may not achieve everything he wants but he will enjoy trying and while some would say he has not won the European Cup he has failed, he does not see it that way, I do not either. The only thing that will stop him progressing next season if the owners decide it is time to change, at this moment I cannot see that happening either. I hope Pep stays for three more years at least, I am reasonably optimistic but depends on how next season goes. The EC this year win/loose will not kake any difference to next 3 yrs years strategy. That is my take
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Re Jose….I never thought he was as bad as people made out. The players let him down badly at Utd in my opinion. I think he will do a good job at Spurs glen some backing and time. He is very animated at times but hey-ho. so are Klopp and Pep. Of the three Pep is a little more guarded in his statements but they are all the best we have in the EPL All have tasted considerable success and it shows
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Some great points Sean although I would say that Klopp is one of the best Coaches in the world if not the best and it didn’t come together for Liverpool under Klopp until he signed Van Dijk, Alisson and Fabinho. I think you need a bit of both tbh.
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Mikius, fair pints mate.
My issue with Jose is he is still using the same tactics. When his teams play the better sides, it’s concede possession and wait for the opposition to make a mistake. That’s outdated fir me as it hasn’t worked for him in a while.
Nine, ye we went up another level but you could all along what klopp was trying to do. We just made far to many individual mistakes at the back.
The way we defend so high in general play and at set plays took years of coaching. Vvd and Alison added much needed organisation
Vvd has got better and better and that’s because of the way he is managed and coached. He was not one of the best defenders before he joined .
In fairness, managers don’t get enough time. Klopp was given a lot of time. You could see what he was trying to do ftom day one.
Jose needs to be given time. The problem is a few bad results and managers are sacked
What makes Liverpool’s recent success more special to me is the way we did it. Everyone thought we were mad selling couthino and using the money in vvd and others. Couthino going was the best thing that ever happened. To much went through him. We started to play 4-3-3 much more regularly and we haven’t looked back.
We have bought players from relegated teams and made them into top top players. We never buy stars, we make them
Sorry don’t want to turn this into a praise klopp thread. He was backed to the hilt with patience. Managers just get that now
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Mikius, utd finished 25 points behind city. 82 points was a good return but all Jose did was moan. Utd were dreadful to watch. My opinion on him changed after his last few months there. Shocking tactics and football
He was one of the best managers ever. That Chelsea team was phenomenal but when he gets nasty, things start to get really bad
Delivering a big trophy at spurs be his biggest achievement. I can’t see him
And levy working out. I’ll be Astonishrd if it does._____________________________
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Brian, peps domestic achievements are really unbelievable. He’s an outstanding coach who had modernised football .
I strongly fancy ciry to bounce back tvis season. On their day, they are one of the best, if not the best in Europe
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No I agree with that Sean I just think you need a bit of both particularly at the top end of the PL.
That’s why I think this might be Jose’s biggest challenge yet but it will be based on remaining strong defensively and then playing on the counter attack and he could still get lucky in the transfer market for instance when Liverpool signed Robertson for £7m they didn’t know he would shortly become the world’s best left back and just for £7m he was a brilliant signing.
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Sean, you have to compare like for like. Jose had favourable conditions at his first time at Chelsea just like Pep does at City. At Utd, Jose clearly had players he didn’t really want whilst also being encouraged by the club to play in a certain way. Also, who else could have done better with that setup under those conditions? And Jose did find a way to beat Pep in 2010. As I say, the common thread with all these top managers is that they create a strong family togetherness and unity that in turn creates a strong mentality that helps keeps focus and mistakes to a minimum. As I think Pep stated some time ago, football is a game won by the team who makes the fewest mistakes. And I think that’s absolutely the foundation on which creates big success no matter what the type of football is played. Obviously you then need the players on top of that, and without Van Dijk & Alisson, Liverpool would not be where they are today.
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Mikus, you are absolutely right…when you look at the table there is little difference in goals concede by Liverpool and City, goals scored different proposition. Cupability of making silly mistakes though belong to City and that is why they trailed Liverpool so Peps comments spot on
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Sean, youve listed Jose of old in your post me old mukka. That was him managing Porto. No money, developed players, won the lot with them. Sadly, those days are long gone with jose. I’ll Give him until xmas before he starts eating Haribo sour patches and spitting dummys out at press conferences. For all he won at Chelsea, He was an absolute tit wank gone wrong when the team slumped. I think he’s due a go at International level after he gets sacked from Spurs.
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Mikius, disagree that he didn’t have the players he liked. His first window he bought Pogba, Bailey and mkythern and fell out with them all. They are players he wanted
Add lindolf and that’s 60 m on two centre backs yet moaned he need more money fir centre backs. Utd has no style of play whatsoever under jose. No identity. It was shocking
He had very favourable conditions at Utd. He had money and he wasted it.
Brian, I wouldn’t compare liverproools defensive stats to cities this season mate. We had the league won with 7 games left and conceded 8 in those games. We had conceded 21 in our previous 31 games. I highly doubt we would have conceded those goals if the league was still to play for
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442, not sure what jose spent at Porto mate but he had some of the best players in Europe at his disposal. If memory serves me right , deleri, deco, bia, Costa, carvalhio, ferrera etc. That was some team who win 2 European trophies in 2 years
Chelsea were an outstanding side in his first two years. They played some great stuff with some magical flair players like duff, Cole, robben, gudjinsen wtc.
Jose started to turn negative . He attacks his own players etc. Let’s see how he gets on in the next few years
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Can only speak from the Chelsea experience but as indicated by 442 when things didn’t go his way Jose would throw all his toys out of the pram and you would dread his press conferences.
I still think Mourinho can do a job at Spurs and if they get off to a good start they will definitely be top 4 challengers.
If I was a Spurs fan though I would be concerned about who Jose might be able to sign v the teams ahead of them.
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It’s the perfect marriage for me
Jose who needs cash and can turn quicker than a cat on a roundabout and old tight arse levy ?
Hoping for serious fireworks as the spuds get relegated ???_____________________________
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That’s it nine mate
Stevo, it’s going to be very interesting to see how all this pans out.
Jose does need to change for him to succeed with spurs. He needs to stop blaming everyone (his own players, refs) etc when things go wrong.
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27, unfortunately you’re right, Spurs can’t afford the quality they need to even look at top 4 next season a Europa place will be an achievement. Going forward with Kane, Sonny + 1 up front and Ndombele, Lo Celso and Hojbjerg is potentially very good.
The problem is our defence Toby & Lloris are good Taganga and Sess will be quality, but Dier, Davies and Aurier in my opinion are not good enough .
I can’t see us upgrading them to a level where we could have a sniff at a CL place I’d love to be proved wrong though , Jose’s biggest challenge ???_____________________________
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Shiney, hoiberg is a very good signing matem
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Sean, we’ll probably have to wait for the books to come out, but I think the whole appointment was a mess at Man Utd from the board (who are still reeling since Fergie & David Gill left) and even Mourinho himself who never really looked happy or comfortable there and the fact he stayed his entire time there in a hotel I think sums it up. I think Pogba was signed by the club more for commercial reasons and I think the club had tried several times before Mourinho came to bring him back to the club. And obviously in his last summer at the club, the board refused to back him, which was odd given his contract extension but just sums up the mess they made (and are still suffering from to this day). I’m not here to completely defend Jose, and yes, he’s volatile and hence has a short shelf life. But I still think he has the skills to deliver success. But an increasing problem for him is that we are increasingly living in the era of the ego, and the power players have now is vastly more than it was even a decade ago. Yes, he has a big ego himself but then that’s where the power should be in the dressing room. But as the player power has continually increased, what with Jose’s fiery nature, I think that clash is a worsening problem he’s faced in more recent years.
On the other side of the coin, you had Wenger, who for all the grief he got in his latter years, for me he still remained a very good coach, if somewhat blindsided. He was obviously a very different personality to Jose, but his problem was that he faced a similar kind of problem Jose did with player power, and loyalty sadly has disappeared. Whilst Wenger was probably thought of as naïve at the time when Monaco sold Martial to Man Utd after previously telling Wenger he was not for sale, I always thought it was very poignant moment when Wenger said of Monaco “I thought they would maintain their word.”…as though he thought honour & loyalty still had a place in football.
So I think all this does just show a manager is only half the strategy – the club also has to be ambitious and buy well – one thing which I think has been crucial at Liverpool for some time now and we’ve finally mastered. Indeed, we really are doing proper due diligence on players now, something I’ve called for, for some time. Not signing Fekir for example, due to injury concerns, was probably the right call in hindsight. And we apparently even looked as deep as character references for the left back we’ve just signed.
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